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View Full Version : Lets have us a poll shall we? "HEADERS"


Dave B.
08-20-2005, 10:38 PM
I think others as well as myslef would like to know not only what make your headers are??

but most of all, how many of you are running longs, vs, Mids?? and the very unusual direct replacment type??

Those of you with the shorter versions,, what was your reason for buying that type? and what differance did you see in your power band??

Thanks all,,,,,, :D :D :D :D

RR03Cobra
08-21-2005, 11:32 AM
I have been told by a few reputable tuners that headers are a waste of money on our cars. I also heard that the loss in torque is not worth the price of headers and the install. I was thinkin about this mod, but decided not to do it.:thumbsup:

Linn@Amazon
08-21-2005, 07:12 PM
generally dont see much benefit to justify the price of the install but there are people who put them on and swear that they see signifigant gains..and dont leak..we have not seen data to support doing this expensive mod unless you are going to run monster boost.we are running a Whipple with 18-19psi on our 03 and dont have them..

Dave B.
08-21-2005, 09:30 PM
well, I went ahead and put a set of BBK LT's on as the shop that put them on have a couple of guys out there with LT's and swear by them,

The thing I was worried about was loosing the hugh bottom end, almost off idle balls to the wall torque,
thing is once the RPM got past about 4000 RPM there was nothing left, it was reving high for nothing, and sounded like it was yelling to be up that high,,,now with the LT's the hugh bottom torque is not there as much,

now it revs right on up to 6500 RPM like it never did before, a real fast spool up, it seems like it took a lot of power that was concentraited into a small but powerful band, and spread it out a little higher in the RPM band,
but I do wonder if iv made a mistake.

InfamousSVT
08-21-2005, 10:53 PM
I've got the Bassani Mid-Lengths

Reason for doing so is basically for the sound, didn't notice any loss in torque but if it did it was so small that it didn't make a real big difference to me.

Leaks.........yeah I had a nasty header leak on the passenger side. Shannon (NO 5 OH) noticed it after we installed the KB on the car. Needless to say Friday night after finishing up with the KB install, Saturday I was over at Shannon's house and Shannon and Richard fixed the header leak for good! New Locking Header Bolts, along with some Lock Tight and no more leak :D


So for the poll:

Bassani Mid-Lengths
Reason: Sound
Price: Too Much

Dave B.
08-21-2005, 11:06 PM
where do you feel you gained the most from your Bassani Mids??

InfamousSVT
08-22-2005, 01:55 AM
where do you feel you gained the most from your Bassani Mids??
When I first had them put on, I had them installed with the cats. Which I didn't really feel a big gain, but no loss at all.
I then took the cats out and installed the O/R pipes and then it just felt a little slower, but I believe I'll be putting the cats back on it sooner or later when I install my new clutch. That way it'll give me some of the loss backpressure back and wicked.

It just doesn't feel as nice with the O/R pipes on it. Honestly I like the sound better without the cats, but for performance I'm putting them back on. Just my .02 cents:)

NO 5 OH
08-22-2005, 06:48 AM
I think others as well as myslef would like to know not only what make your headers are??

but most of all, how many of you are running longs, vs, Mids?? and the very unusual direct replacment type??

Those of you with the shorter versions,, what was your reason for buying that type? and what differance did you see in your power band??

MAC 1 5/8" ceramic coated long tubes
MAC 2 1/2" ProChamber (no cats)
MAC 3" Flowpath catback

I've had the headers, midpipe on my car since around the 8500 mile mark. I didn't do a before/after dyno so I have no "factual data" but the buttometer told me they made a difference in power. Before the headers/midpipe I had a cold air kit, catback and a 2.75 pulley with a tune and from a first gear roll it would just squat and go. After the headers/midpipe the car would for the first time light the tires up from a first gear roll and felt a whole lot stronger throughout the entire powerband. You won't notice a big jump in power up top... but you will see a difference down low under the curve.

I think they were a very good mod for me... I couldn't have been happier with them. If you do the install the right way the first time (as Jason said earlier) you will not have a problems with leaks at all. Give the car a little more seat time and I think you'll like your decision more and more :thumbsup:



Shannon

todds03
08-22-2005, 11:26 PM
before i got my blower ported, my car was makin 465 hp and 480 tq. I installed bbks long tubes,(very impressed) and i redynoed it, it made 490 hp and 517 tq. and i noticed a big difference in driving the car. and sounded a hell of alot better. The bbks fit perfect, and it was not that bad to put in, it took me 4 hrs to install. I did install other brands of headers in friends cars (kooks, bassani) but was not impressed. bbk long tubes are the way to go:bounce:

Dave B.
08-23-2005, 12:18 AM
could you be so kind as to tell me what other mods you have as well as the BBK's LT's?? to get the dyno numbers you have posted?? :banana: :banana: :banana:

RF Cobra
08-23-2005, 12:34 AM
Dave, in reading your post it almost sounds to me like something was wrong, blockage (blocked cat(s)) or something since the torque curve is pretty linear across the powerband and it shouldn't be maxing out at only 4k rpm.

Anyone else think this is a possibility or am I reading too much into what he is describing?



The thing I was worried about was loosing the hugh bottom end, almost off idle balls to the wall torque,
thing is once the RPM got past about 4000 RPM there was nothing left, it was reving high for nothing, and sounded like it was yelling to be up that high,,,now with the LT's the hugh bottom torque is not there as much,

now it revs right on up to 6500 RPM like it never did before, a real fast spool up, it seems like it took a lot of power that was concentraited into a small but powerful band, and spread it out a little higher in the RPM band,
but I do wonder if iv made a mistake.

Dave B.
08-23-2005, 01:31 AM
No RF, what I was saying, as far as it maxing out around 4000 RPM,
was before we put the headers on,, I have 2.76 pulley, accufab, mac cold air, magnaflow X pipe and catback, tuned with a predator,

The way the car would run BEFORE we put the headers on was like this,

Soon as i would get rolling at all in first, I had enough torque to just rip the rubber off the rims,,,,,,but once it got to 4000-5000 RPM or somewhere in that area,, maybe 4000 RPM was a little low, but my point is that once it got past that hugh torque band down low,,,as the RPM went above those numbers, it was like the engine was spining up for nothing, there was no power what so ever above 4000-5000 RPM, in other words, the power went away in such a way as to be very noticably weaker in the high RPM bands.

Now with the BBK LT's I cant beleive how much and how fast it spools up, where it did not make power before its making hugh power, yes I did loose that high torque down low, but man does she like to rock up high,,,Ill be blasting around the back streets, and will look down to be very surprised that instead of it being at 4000 RPM its still pulling hard at 5500 heading for 6000 and I have to back off.,,,,theres an O/R "H" pipe on there now without cats,,tomorrow there building me an "X" with cats,,,,I should get some bottom end back and still be a screaming MEANY!!! :banana: :banana: :flash:

ausie
08-23-2005, 07:26 AM
Just imagine if that Eaton was replaced with a Whipple 2.3 or a Kenn Bell 2.4. At least you would have boost over the entire RPM range instead of it running out of air volume that the Eaton suffers with. The Eaton is just an air pusher not a compressor like the Autorotor kenn Bell or Lysholm twin screw as in the whipple. Perhaps that may be the wat to go later on, but it sounds like you are beginning to like the headers. I am really considering the Whipple but the Kenn Bell is also a good choice. Either way I go it has to be polished for the car shows...... For now I am just getting some seat time at the track with the car in stock form.

blk04cobra1
08-23-2005, 10:13 AM
One other thing I failed to mention, is if you go with a 2-4-6lb lower, you'll regain some of that torque...Todds03 isnt the only one who has had success with the BBK's, im sure you'll see some significant gains with another custom tune on the Predator ;)

Ausie--if it were me, I'd go with the 2.4KB over the Whipple b/c if you want the Whipple, you'll be waiting much longer (unless you get it used) :thumbsup:

RF Cobra
08-23-2005, 10:46 AM
No RF, what I was saying, as far as it maxing out around 4000 RPM...
Okay. It was getting late and after 4 hours of classes after working all day I thought it sounded a little extreme in the fall off since mine is still stock and pulled hard well into 5k territory on the dyno and it made me think you might have had some sort of restriction causing problems before the change. It also brought back memories of my TurboCoupe which "hit a wall" prematurely in the upper rpms and just quit putting out power as it slowly finished running out to the redline. We thought it might have been tranny related but never kept it long enough to figure it out for certain. Sorry I was reading too much into it.

Good luck on the new X pipe. I hope it gets that bottom end back for you! :)

pdogkilr
08-23-2005, 11:02 AM
New Locking Header Bolts, along with some Lock Tight and no more leak.

What brand of Locking Header Bolts did you use? I contacted Stage 8 back in February and they said their bolts would not work on a 2003 Cobra with Bassani Mid-Lengths.

I took the car back to Dugan Racing three times for a re-torque at their suggestion. They said I should not have a problem now. BTW, with the headers and an AccuFab throttle-body, I'm only getting 12 pounds of boost out of a 2.8 LFP pulley. No problem with torque though; see my sig. Thinking about a Metco 4 pound lower.

For the survey:

Bassani Mid-Length
Wanted their complete system
Sound and power

kilroy
08-23-2005, 02:46 PM
well, I went ahead and put a set of BBK LT's on as the shop that put them on have a couple of guys out there with LT's and swear by them,
~
but I do wonder if iv made a mistake.If you are questioning yourself, you probably have...

Your description sounds exactly like how my neighbor's car responded to that mod. I'm sure it sounds killer though. :cool: I see big boost in your future...

Dave B.
08-23-2005, 11:13 PM
Check it out!! heres what we did,
I did not like the O/R "H" pipe due to the loss of bottom end torque, although the really excellent sound was growing on me,

So we took my "X" pipe that came off when I was using the OEM manifold, we had it cut, moved the cats back a few inches so it would fit with the LT's and with the rest of the magnaflow muffler set up,

Now I have all the low end torque back that I had before but its too dam quiet!! I was really starting to like the roaring sound of that O/R H pipe,,,,
someone needs to make a cat with a big one inch hole drilled thru the middle of it to get the best of both,,,,

kilroy
08-24-2005, 10:28 AM
Check it out!! heres what we did,
I did not like the O/R "H" pipe due to the loss of bottom end torque, although the really excellent sound was growing on me,

So we took my "X" pipe that came off when I was using the OEM manifold, we had it cut, moved the cats back a few inches so it would fit with the LT's and with the rest of the magnaflow muffler set up,

Now I have all the low end torque back that I had before but its too dam quiet!! I was really starting to like the roaring sound of that O/R H pipe,,,,
someone needs to make a cat with a big one inch hole drilled thru the middle of it to get the best of both,,,,:thumbsup: Glad you found some TQ putting the cats back on! Any way to get a cat'ed H in there?
I still see big boost in your future :cheers:

blk04cobra1
08-24-2005, 05:20 PM
glad you got it back man...:thumbsup:

todds03
08-24-2005, 10:55 PM
Dave, now i am pushing 530 hp at the wheels, but that is with the blower ported. I am also running accufab t.b. bbk x-pipe, magnaflow cat back, 2.80 pully, k&n filter pack and 55lb. injecters. I had it tuned with superchips . Let me tell u what, for 450.00 to have the blower ported, it was worth it . but in the near future, i would like to change the blower. :thumbsup:

Dave B.
08-24-2005, 11:23 PM
So we took the O/R H pipe off and put on a catted X pipe,,
well,,,,i got enough bottom end torque back to about break my neck if im not ready for what this thing does coming out of first gear,,,its unbeleivable,

But now that fast spool up to higher RPM is no more,,,,,,it appears I get one or the other,,,so I have an O/R X pipe coming and ill just have to settle for high RPM power ,,,,,easier on the tires I guess. and I was getting used to the loud roar,,,this thing with a catted X on is very quiet.

NO 5 OH
08-26-2005, 01:44 AM
What brand of Locking Header Bolts did you use? I contacted Stage 8 back in February and they said their bolts would not work on a 2003 Cobra with Bassani Mid-Lengths.

They will if you grind the tabs down smaller like the ones that come in the kit. They offer eight of the small "triangular tabs" but that's not enough to do the complete set of headers. I ground the tabs down to fit as required... and I put blue loctite on the bolts to make double sure we wern't doing it again. Myself, and another friend of mine spent about 12-14 hours that day taking everything apart, fixing it and then putting it back together. I'm getting pretty good at header installations now ;);)

Hope this answers your question,



Shannon <--- co-owner/shop tech Scary Fast Motorsports :D

InfamousSVT
08-26-2005, 03:47 AM
Yeah, what Shannon said! ;)


Jason <------ Scary Fast Motorsports tool B*tch :rotf:

NO 5 OH
08-26-2005, 05:53 AM
Yeah, what Shannon said! ;)


Jason <------ Scary Fast Motorsports tool B*tch :rotf:

:rotf: :rotf: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Jason I do believe that you have been "promoted" here as of recently... I'll have to check my files and see but there is a possibility ;) I know for sure you'll have that promotion if you'd finish up our "Scary Fast" logo so we can have some shirts made. We'll even have one made for you :D

Give me a holla' tomorrow



Shannon

pdogkilr
08-26-2005, 05:27 PM
Thanks Shannon - a big help and much appreciated.

Jerry

Dave B.
08-27-2005, 01:20 AM
I went back to square one,,,,,,sorta kinda,,,,,,
we put on a set of Nitto R555 305/35/18 drags on the rear, had to use a 10MM spacer, has anyone else had to use a spacer with AFS 10.5's ??

I had all the torque back with a catted X pipe but no high end,,,,so I had the O/R "H" put back on and lov'n it,,,,,,

what sounds better an O/R "X" or O/R "H" with LT's and a magnaflow exhaust??

I have an O/R "X" on its way but im really getting used to the wicked sound of the "H"......I think ill keep it,

2003 Cobra :bounce: :bounce:
2.76 billetflow Pulley
all Billetflow idlers
Mac Cold air
Accufab single blade TB
Gordsford heat exchanger
BBK long tubes
an O/R "H" (for now)
Magnaflow backend
Lowered 1.5 inches
Cobra "R" hood (real thing)
Cobra "R" wing (real thing)
AFS 18X9's front
AFS 18X10.5's rear
pro shifter with Hurst "T" handle W/compressor overide on Hurst button