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View Full Version : Predator Tuning, what does it change?


Dave B.
09-10-2005, 01:29 AM
After installing a Wideband gauge,
I have been trying to lean down what seems to be an extreamly fat rich standard pulley tune that Diablo Sport installed in my Predator,

No matter what I do with the Fuel table the cruse around A/F ratios do not seem to change at all, I have been told by a couple of folks that the Predator will only change wide open throttle, one guy said 80% and up.

But im seeing A/F numbers when I get on it as rich as 10.0 and so far im MINUS from Diablos pulley tune -4.0 leaner than the 0.0 fugure represented in the predator display,, It almost seems the changes im making are so slight the Predator may NOT be able to lean down enough to get me any where near 12.0 A/F under boost with a 2.76 pulley and all the other bolt ons ,,,,,,,,if thats the case Im going to be pissed,,,what say you?

Pro-Dyno
09-10-2005, 02:01 AM
What type of wide band are you using and is it new the tune in the Diablo has commanded fuel in other areas you are only making minor changes 10% on the Predator may only yield .2 a/f change I would recommend if this is a (can tune) mail order base pulley tune if you go to there web one of the updated tunes you can download may work more to your liking or find some one to custom tune it

;)

Dave B.
09-10-2005, 02:12 AM
Iv had the Predator for about two years but we just within the last two months downloaded the newer software into it, then before I had the AEM Wideband installed we had just used the standard "Pulley tune" that Diablo has,

SO of couse Diable is going to play it on the safe side and make it fat, until I got the Wideband I had it set at plus 3.0 on the fuel because I had LT headers, Mac cold air, accufab TB, 2.76 pulley and I thought it would just need a little more fuel,,,,but man when I lean on it hard, im seeing numbers on the gauge start falling to the rich side all the way to 10.0 just before I let off, so the higher the RPM and boost the richer it gets,

Pro-Dyno
09-10-2005, 11:49 AM
exactly they are not going to give you enough room to hurt it every car reacts differently and they have to keep a big safety area being a mail order tune iv seen some cars run in the 12.0 range with the same tune I believe that pulley tune is set for a 2.76,2.8.3.0 ect... it probably will not mater but try unhooking the battery and then running the car again:)

Dave B.
09-10-2005, 02:43 PM
I will follow your advise,
do you think it would matter if I just reinstalled the pulley tune, then started over? or rather than going down in just 0.5 changes, maybe 2.0 at a time ine order to see the differance?

and final question, in almost every situation when one like mine is put on the Dyno, are they always rich?

Pro-Dyno
09-10-2005, 06:10 PM
I would try the battery and see what it does if it doesnít change at all I would bring it to a Dyno and at least have it checked you can never tell for shore if your wide band is perfect I see them off all the time as for the tuners yes I see them rich like this the majority of the time

ausie
09-11-2005, 12:07 PM
I would agree with Pro-dyno on that one. Even though the ECU has a flash processor in it, the EPROM that stores the parameters that the ECU uses to adjust timming and fuel corrections are not part of the flash processor even if the EPROM is on the same PC board. To my understanding what gets flashed into the processor are re-mapped air/fuel curves and timming curves. Once the program is running it uses the sensors (O2, temperature sending unit, IAC control, etc) to interpolate the response and stores appropriate adjustments in the EPROM. If the data is old it will not write over the old data with new unless the EPROM is dumped (erased) by disconnecting the battery. The ECU only monitors and stores data for the first 50 miles of operation (this is a guess) and once it has accumulated data that reaches the end of storage capacity or has met certain criteria it stops writting to the EPROM and uses the stored data for operation unless it is erased. With a processor having the ability to learn and adjust operating parameters during the first few hours of engine operation means that a single source code can be used on every motor of the same build without having to tune each one after assembly. This is just a guess or an assumption on how it works.

Pro-Dyno
09-11-2005, 02:12 PM
ausie is correct this is almost exactly how it works the keep alive memory monitors its changes in the first 3 drive cycles when the pcm is re flashed it actually reloads a complete new program written from a modified stick binary file BUT KAM keep alive memory (all self adjusting parameters) are not erased there for the pcm refers back to the old saved parameters now the open loop (OL) wide open throttle does not make corrections it does refer to the last correction made Wright before you go OL this can add or subtract fuel buy a percentage across the board so erasing the KAM it may change the AFR enough to bring you closer to your desired 11.8-12.0

:thumbsup:

Dave B.
09-11-2005, 09:27 PM
After several days of slowly reducing the amount of fuel displayed on the Predators fuel table display, I noticed that no mater what I did, or what I changed in the fuel table, the car seemed to lose power,

but the gauge during hard excell from 3000 RPM to 6000 RPM basicly acted the same by starting at around 13.0 and going to 10.2 or so as the boost and RPM went up, this made no sence to me, I kept lowering and lowering the amount of fuel hoping to see the lowest number on the gauge to get around 11.8 or so, but it just kept going all the way down to 10.2 just like it did at the beginning, I was all the way do to the lowest setting the predator had which was minus 15%,,,car ran like crap but the wideband still showed the same numbers,,,on a whim I set the fuel table back to plus 3% this was an eighteen percent raise in the fuel table,,,,,WOW, all the power had come back,,,,and the wideband still read the same number pattern as before starting at its cruse ratio of 15.8 or so, going all the way down to 10.2 at max boost and RPM,,,,,,,,anyone with a clue?

Pro-Dyno
09-11-2005, 09:38 PM
Where is your sensor located?

Dave B.
09-11-2005, 09:45 PM
the Bung is in the long tube headers collector on the other side of the other O2 sensor

Pro-Dyno
09-11-2005, 10:34 PM
Ok that should be fine have you tried the Battery clearing yet
The Predatorís ive seen for these cars will only make about a .5 fuel change at the full 15% like 11.0 to an 11.5 this is to keep the end user from leaning the car out to much like the timing adjustment 10% =about 2*deg
but if the car runs better adding 3% I would first find a Dyno and check it against there wide band better safe than sorry!

Dave B.
09-11-2005, 10:52 PM
Yes I disconected the battery today,
did not change anything, see the thing is I paid $327 for the Wideband, the about $100 to have it installed, sounds high but they did some other stuff for me too,,,,but the reason I bought the gauge was so I could tune it myself as i was told was possible with the Wideband,

right now im a little pissed as I think the predator is probably not the best tool for doing this anymore,,,,another $400 down the drain,

What would be the very best tuning device that would work for me with this gauge?

Pro-Dyno
09-12-2005, 09:35 AM
I am partial to SCT xcalibrator 2's http://www.pro-dyno.net/products.php (http://www.pro-dyno.net/products.php) they are nice and give you full logging features to a laptop but they have not finished all of the user adjustability this is supposed to be out by the end of the year the other way to go is by adding a racer package this will give full control to all the parameters you need to properly tune your vehicle but it does get a little pricey purchasing this package the full version runs about $299. + Xcal2 I would still take it to a Dyno spend the $50. And do a base line to see if there is a problem with the wide band before you spend any more money and run in to the same result over a corrupt sensor:thumbsup:

cobra2112
09-13-2005, 07:52 PM
I'm not very happy with my predator because of the lean condition 2k-3k and its rich off the charts from 5k-6k. Anybody have any luck with the Xcalibrator 2? or maybe Superchips tuner. :doubt: Is SCT and Superchips the same company?

Dave B.
09-13-2005, 11:32 PM
did you get this info from a dyno? about it being lean between 2K and 3K?

cobra2112
09-14-2005, 07:23 AM
Actually from two different dyno's and from my LM1 wideband. I'm not sure if I want to find somebody that can custom tune or try another handheld tuner. I already have the predator set -10% to add fuel to the 2k-4k table and it made very little difference.

Big Daddy
09-14-2005, 08:29 AM
I'm not very happy with my predator because of the lean condition 2k-3k and its rich off the charts from 5k-6k. Anybody have any luck with the Xcalibrator 2? or maybe Superchips tuner. :doubt: Is SCT and Superchips the same company?

SCT and Superchips are NOT the same company. I made the mistake of saying I was running a SCT chip in my ride to the Superchips guys on the Hot Rod Power Tour this summer and they made it very CLEAR that SCT is not part of their company. Plus I believe Superchips was purchased by MSD. The SCT Xcalibrater 2 is supposed to be great. I'm running a SCT chip and with the tune I got from Ed Clark my car has never run so well since I put the blower on! SCT ALL THE WAY! :D

blk04cobra1
09-14-2005, 09:13 AM
Im switching over as well...it'll be nice to have one race tune and one putt around tune :thumbsup:

kilroy
09-14-2005, 11:05 AM
~,but the reason I bought the gauge was so I could tune it myself as i was told was possible with the Wideband,right now im a little pissed as I think the predator is probably not the best tool for doing this anymore,,,,another $400 down the drain. What would be the very best tuning device that would work for me with this gauge? Dave, I know you wanna tune it yourself. SCT & Diablosport both make software packages that will allow you to do so on a computer & then xfer the tunes to their respective handhelds or burned to chips. It's not inexpensive & due to the granularity, you can easily hang yourself if you do not know what you're doing. Handhelds do not give you that capability. Case in point, I watched a handheld tuned car at Versuch dyno gain 30rwhp/tq over the handheld's capabilities when Rick Erdman tickled his keyboard. With that said,

I would call a reputable tuner & ask them what they recommend to get you where you need to be. Datalogging is an invaluable tool & a properly calibrated wideband. I have no personal experience with LM-1s, but have been told by a very reputable source they aren't always as dependable as we'd expect them to be. http://smilies.storagebin.us/smilies/parrot.gif Take that for what it's worth.

Pro-Dyno
09-14-2005, 04:03 PM
Ya SCT and supper chips are definitely not the same co. any more. It was group of individuals that started out together and then eventually harshly split up there buildings where literally across the street from each other. There are no handheld devices out there that will give you any where close to the control of what a certified tuner can. This is because we who tune donít want any one out there blowing there engines by us allowed too much adjustment. Mail order is a tricky business because there are so many variables to look out for. Iíve tuned a lot of car's and very rarely do you get 2 that will run exactly the same on one specific tune this is why you see this big gray area from car to car running caned tunes (one size fits all). You never get the max potential out of your particular vehicle from a mail order tune. Unless it is sitting on the Dyno and your tuner is sending you files. mail order is this simple it's a big GUESS well these cars did this with this tune so I GUESS this one will to but just in case I will add extra fuel and less timing an Walla here you go a tune for every one. I see this more than you want to know you wouldnít believe how many tunes I reprogram and who's they are that sent them out sorry for running on just my little input:thumbsup:

Dave B.
09-14-2005, 09:42 PM
I want to thank all of you for a succesful, and rather helpful thread, Dave B.

Dave B.
09-15-2005, 01:26 AM
So who in the greater Tampa bay/St, Petersburg area not only has the best Dyno? but is also the best Tuner for an 03 Cobra with all the bolt ons?

Pro-Dyno
09-15-2005, 07:50 AM
Gonyon, Tony

HP Performance


OrangePark
FL

QKSTNG@aol.com (QKSTNG@aol.com)



Tony Does excellent work and he is an SCT level 4 tuner

blk04cobra1
09-15-2005, 08:51 AM
I also heard Coastal Dyno is a good one :thumbsup:

BlueOvalPower
09-15-2005, 11:04 AM
I have been hearing Coastal too from several guys that I have met with Cobras around here.

Dave B.
09-15-2005, 09:31 PM
then Coastal It shall be,,,,,,thanks muchly

Linn@Amazon
09-16-2005, 10:11 PM
you made the right choice Dave...a custom dyno tune is alway the best choice when available..the SCT/ Diablosport debate will rage on but the bottom line is each product is only as good as the tuner programming it..both products have similar capabilites.We use both SCT and Diablosport products to tune so Rick is familiar with either and works with whatever the customer's preference is. Since you have a Preditor there are tuners who can do an awesome custom tune for you with it without having to switch to another product..looking into a tuners backround and experience is as important as choosing a tuning product. I'd be happy to discuss your options with you if you want to give me a call Monday...864 332 0955