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tgentry
09-22-2005, 04:11 PM
I just bought a '96 Cobra with all forged engine, Vortech S trim with GT impeller, 42lb injectors, power pipe, BBK longtubes, etc. Currently making 477rwhp @15psi.

Since it will be an open track car I intend to add some form of charge cooling, probably alc/water injection.

Should I also be looking into bigger bypass valves? Anything else? I've been looking but not finding much Vortech tech on the internet.

Let me know what you think.

tcrews
09-22-2005, 08:14 PM
At 15psi you'll definitely want a better bypass valve but you don't need to go crazy ($$) with it. I'll try to find the part # for an exact duplicate of what Vortech supplies but it has a brass valve instead of a plastic valve that comes in the kit.

Most Vortechs come with a Bosch 0280142-103 (mine was a 102) and the replacement is like 0280142-112 or -114. Typically around $50 or so but can hold more boost with the stronger brass valve vs. the plastic one in the lower numbered part.

For cooling you'd really be better off getting the Aftercooler from Vortech. Those alcohol/water injection systems aren't really designed to run full-time, more along the lines of a 10 second blast down the 1/4 mile.

tgentry
09-23-2005, 09:27 AM
Hi Tom,
I was hoping you'd jump in here.

Other than needing a bigger tank for the alc/water mixture, what would be the issues with running it for OT events?

tcrews
09-23-2005, 09:44 AM
No major issues except the rate of usage of the spray. Plus it's an extra "small" electrical pump that could fail, etc... Just for any what I would consider "long term" usage.....an aftercooler/intercooler would definitely be a better choice.

Other than the small issues (pump failure, fluid capacity) I don't think anything would be wrong with it.

Big Daddy
09-23-2005, 10:31 AM
Tom G, (since it's the Tom's talking to themselves!)

I run the stock vortech aftercooler and the Snow Boost Cooler. IF I was going to just run one it would be the aftercooler. Tom C is correct about the water/meth system, depending on which "stage" system you buy, you can get a controller to set when the boost cooler comes on and goes off. Right now I have mine set to come on at 6lbs of boost and not to shut off unless it drops below 6lbs. Of course I'm seeing 14lbs of boost on the gauge at WOT. :D Are you going to race this car? If so go with the bigger tank if it's just for open track the regular system from Vortech will be fine. :thumbsup:

tgentry
09-23-2005, 10:35 AM
It seems to me that in an air-liquid charge cooler (Vortech Aftercooler) pump failure could be a problem as well. Air-air seems like the lowest possible failure rate, but then there are problems with filling up all that extra volume.

I've been thinking about rigging up a warning light that would trigger if the system is on and line pressure is low, but I haven't found the right sensor yet.

From what I've read the alc/water is injected at about a 10:1 ratio with fuel, so even for OT a 1.5 gallon tank would outlast a tank of gas.

I'm just curious, how much boost is your beast running?

tgentry
09-23-2005, 10:44 AM
Hi Greg,
Looks like I have both boostaholics in attendance now. :bounce:

You say IF you only ran one you would choose the Aftercooler. Could you elaborate? Do you feel the Aftercooler is more reliable? Better cooling? Just one less fluid to fill?

This car will be primarily for OT with some street driving. It currently has a conservative tune, making 477rwhp at 15psi, and it ran great at GingerMan. I'm mainly looking for reliability and durability from this system, but a few extra horses for my trouble wouldn't break my heart either. Maybe 501rwhp :cool:

BTW, with my setup and 15psi, 477 seems a little low. I'm assuming this is because of the tune, but maybe I'm missing something.

smashedheadcat
09-23-2005, 02:08 PM
I would get the aftercooler or the air to air intercooler made by Paxton. If you go with the air to water cooler, then get the intercooler pump for a 99+ lightning. I have this pump. It's much bigger than the supplied vortech pump and since it's an OEM pump, the odds of it failing during full time use are in your favor.

Big Daddy
09-23-2005, 03:43 PM
Hi Greg,
Looks like I have both boostaholics in attendance now. :bounce:

You say IF you only ran one you would choose the Aftercooler. Could you elaborate? Do you feel the Aftercooler is more reliable? Better cooling? Just one less fluid to fill?

This car will be primarily for OT with some street driving. It currently has a conservative tune, making 477rwhp at 15psi, and it ran great at GingerMan. I'm mainly looking for reliability and durability from this system, but a few extra horses for my trouble wouldn't break my heart either. Maybe 501rwhp :cool:

BTW, with my setup and 15psi, 477 seems a little low. I'm assuming this is because of the tune, but maybe I'm missing something.

Hey Tom,

I would run the air to water IF I only ran one because it provides better cooling ALL THE TIME. The boost cooler only comes on at certain times. The pump supplied from Vortech will last a LONG time, Dave Stanfield has had his for over 100,000 miles of street, strip and track with no problems and mine has about 50,000 miles on it.

The boost cooler on top of the aftercooler has provided a drop in intake temps from 116 degree's F to 96 degree's F. I like the combo 'cause it gets HOT DOWN HERE! Most blown folks will see a drop in HP as the blower gets hot but with the combo I'm able to minimize the HP loss. ALSO, you will see about 2-3 lbs less boost with the air to water but you will also be able to tune it more agressively. The Vortech aftercooler system was good for about 100 RWHP on mine and Dave's cars. :thumbsup:

tgentry
09-23-2005, 04:47 PM
Greg, are you saying you lost 2-3 lb. boost and gained 100rwhp just through the tune? Or did you pulley up? How much boost are you running?

Also, I read something about moving the IAT to be AFTER the blower. Have you guys done this? It makes sense to me, but can the IAT take the pressure? I'll have to check and see where mine is, but I'm guessing it's in the normal Vortech location.

tcrews
09-23-2005, 07:16 PM
I'm just curious, how much boost is your beast running?
Mine? I'm making a little over 15psi...15.5-16psi....

tcrews
09-23-2005, 07:21 PM
One thing to keep in mind...boost is not a measure of horsepower....it's only a measure of "lack of air flow" so to speak. The more pressure (lack of air exiting your engine) the more boost you'll see. That doesn't mean much for power as power is air IN plus air OUT :)

The reduction in boost pressure (usually about 2psi) from an aftercooler or intercooler is more than made up for with an increase in timing and a denser cooler air flow. Greater flow (less restriction..ie less boost reading) but cooler denser air and more timing = more power. 70rwhp to 100rwhp gains from an after/intercooler plus tuning is very common.

tgentry
09-23-2005, 11:29 PM
One thing to keep in mind...boost is not a measure of horsepower....it's only a measure of "lack of air flow" so to speak.

Good point, I know you and Greg both have good flowing heads, intakes and exhaust. I believe my heads are stock other than a "5 angle" valve job. Intake is stock and exhaust is BBK longtubes, offroad X and magnaflow catback (hmmmm, it really a catback with no cats?).