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View Full Version : Burned dust boots (caliper pistons) AVAILABILITY UPDATE


jimmysidecarr
12-05-2005, 06:19 PM
Well... My caliper piston dust boots are :firebounc :firedevil :shtowned: .... GONE.... completely... and totally burned off.... no longer there!!!

I was told by several guys that they had not been able to get dust boots alone... they could not find rebuild kits for our PBR 2 piston Cobra calipers...

NOT TRUE!!!!

GOOD NEWS!!!

They are in fact available... Ford parts # XR3Z-2221-BA LIST PRICE $29.53 Which I believe does both front calipers...

On a more somber note...
I do not recommend Motorcraft Preferred Value pads for open track use... :doubt:

They will not last the weekend if you happen to be a faster or more aggressive driver than I.

I didn't trash the rotor..... but ooooooh so close!!!!

Another topic...

The extreme amount of taper in the pad wear!!!
There had to be .010" to .020" of difference from the leading edge(the wiped out edge) to the trailing edge(about .050 to.060 left)...

This has got me seriously thinking about those Y2K R calipers.....Hmmmm

1. How many week ends can you get out of those pads?
2. How much is a typical street/track pad?
3. Are they noisy on the street?

97CasperCobra
12-05-2005, 06:38 PM
Well... My caliper piston dust boots are :firebounc :firedevil :shtowned: .... GONE.... completely... and totally burned off.... no longer there!!!

3. Are they noisy on the street?

1) I'm not understanding where the caliper dust boot is...:(
2) From driving RACHEL'S R around....those are not noisy at ALL on the street, you can't even tell they are there UNTILL you touch the brake pedal and those huge clampers crunch those pizza-sized rotors. I'm gonna be purchasing a set of the 2000 R Brembos next year as well. :thumbsup:

Twice Bitten
12-05-2005, 07:28 PM
1) I'm not understanding where the caliper dust boot is...:(
2) From driving RACHEL'S R around....those are not noisy at ALL on the street, you can't even tell they are there UNTILL you touch the brake pedal and those huge clampers crunch those pizza-sized rotors. I'm gonna be purchasing a set of the 2000 R Brembos next year as well. :thumbsup:

Rachels :typer: has the Brembo Grand Turismo kit on it :D

97CasperCobra
12-05-2005, 07:31 PM
Rachels :typer: has the Brembo Grand Turismo kit on it :D

yes....or as they call it....the F40 kit. :thumbsup:

jimmysidecarr
12-05-2005, 08:30 PM
yes....or as they call it....the F40 kit. :thumbsup:

Yes ... the one that will not fit under a 17" wheel :rolleyes:

I've been really busting the budget lately..
I've got to reel in the spending a little for a while...

I'm still thinking about my brake options...
Fortunately I have a beater to drive :D while "The Great Cobrini" is on the jack stands again... :(

Right now the Performance Friction pads from Auto Zone are looking pretty good to me.... Very good bang for the buck factor :thumbsup:

Bartman01
12-05-2005, 11:26 PM
I was running Hawk HP-T's out there, and although a couple of times I cooked the brakes enough for Marty to warn me to watch my pads I never had any problems braking. Then again I was only hitting 110-115 in the long straights (3.27 gears, stock motor, and most likely less than ideal lines).

I used the Hawk HPS pads at TWS, and those are going back on for street driving since the T's seem to squeal around town.

Running the '03 Cobra pads on the rears.

jimmysidecarr
12-06-2005, 09:32 AM
I was running Hawk HP-T's(Could these possibly be the HP+(plus) pads???)(I couldn't find Ts on the web site) out there, and although a couple of times I cooked the brakes enough for Marty to warn me to watch my pads I never had any problems braking. Then again I was only hitting 110-115 in the long straights (3.27 gears, stock motor, and most likely less than ideal lines).

I used the Hawk HPS pads at TWS, and those are going back on for street driving since the T's seem to squeal around town.

Running the '03 Cobra pads on the rears.(I've still got about 1/2 a rear OEM set left... I'll put these back on for the next track event ... and finish the Motorcrafts on the street--less dust)

I may try the blues or blacks for track only... just to see how they are... then put something more rotor friendly back on for street... :thumbsup:

Bartman01
12-06-2005, 07:18 PM
Yes, they were the HP-Plus pads. I think the pads themselves were marked HP-T, but the part number was HP-Plus.

Levi
12-07-2005, 09:10 AM
Hawk Blacks on my stock rotors work great for track.

Carl G
12-09-2005, 01:22 PM
Jimmy, I have the upgrade Brembo brakes on my 03 with Hawk pads. I have done three events and they still have a ways to go. As you get faster on the tracks you will use your brakes less. The hawks are a little noisey for street use. I love have they stop with out using hard pressure. It is not a cheap upgrade about $1100 should cover the cost, but well worth the expense if you plan to do a lot of events.

jimmysidecarr
12-09-2005, 02:56 PM
Jimmy, I have the upgrade Brembo brakes on my 03 with Hawk pads. I have done three events and they still have a ways to go. As you get faster on the tracks you will use your brakes less. The hawks are a little noisey for street use. I love have they stop with out using hard pressure. It is not a cheap upgrade about $1100 should cover the cost, but well worth the expense if you plan to do a lot of events.

The Brembo upgrade is a future upgrade I am VERY $ERIOUSLY considering....

Because the faster you go ... we may be using them for a briefer period of time... but we are most likely on them harder...
My braking was very different from TWS....
This time it was more like.... wait ....wait... little touch and slight turn... then HARD BRAKE!!! and HARD TURN!!!
If I went slower I would be using less brake and more coast downs... as it is now I could be alot faster with some sticky tires and some better brakes...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :bounce:

Admiral
12-09-2005, 05:26 PM
Forget the dust boots man, you'll just keep burning them off now that you're a track addict!

jimmysidecarr
12-09-2005, 06:33 PM
Forget the dust boots man, you'll just keep burning them off now that you're a track addict!

LOL :rotf: I was wondering if I was going to get one of those comments :D

And how appropriate that it would come from you!!! Monster Mike!!! ;) :thumbsup:

It's not a daily driver... so I suppose it's not a big deal... It always gets fresh fluid before it gets whooped on anyway...

Which calipers are you running Mike???
The Brembo 4pots.(Cobra R) , PBR(Cobra) 2 pots... or something else...(Stoptech, Wilwood, Alcon, ???)

Admiral
12-09-2005, 10:51 PM
I've got the Brembo's (2000 R) and love them. When you make as many mistakes per lap as I do it pays to have that stopping power working for ya. Keeps the "Oh Sweet Jesus" prayers down to a manageable level in a 20 minute session lol.

jimmysidecarr
12-09-2005, 11:31 PM
I've got the Brembo's (2000 R) and love them. When you make as many mistakes per lap as I do it pays to have that stopping power working for ya. Keeps the "Oh Sweet Jesus" prayers down to a manageable level in a 20 minute session lol.

Thanks!!!
Those are the ones I'm leaning toward... I like being able to run a 17" OE style wheel over them... and 17" tires are cheaper than 18" ALL DAY LONG!!!

BTW Could have fooled me on the mistakes per lap issue.. :doubt:

NOT READILY APPARENT TO ME... :thumbsup:

Admiral
12-10-2005, 08:48 AM
I'd check fitment issues prior to puchase. My understanding is that only a select few 17" fit over the Brembos, I run the 95 Cobra R's for that reason.

Al C
12-10-2005, 12:27 PM
As a follow up on Mike's reply above, only a few of the OE 17 inch Cobra wheels fit over the Brembo calipers.

Reference a Corner-Carver.com forum thread:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20406&highlight=brembo+cobra+98

"The only factory 17x8 that will clear the Cobra R brembo calipers is the 98 Cobra wheel. All of the factory 17x9's will clear, the 95 R, the 03/04 Cobra, and the 04 Cobra Anniversary. and of course the 18" 00 R wheels clear."

97CasperCobra
12-10-2005, 12:54 PM
"The only factory 17x8 that will clear the Cobra R brembo calipers is the 98 Cobra wheel. All of the factory 17x9's will clear, the 95 R, the 03/04 Cobra, and the 04 Cobra Anniversary. and of course the 18" 00 R wheels clear."

damn....there goes my idea to use the stock '97 rims for the track. :(

jimmysidecarr
12-10-2005, 05:37 PM
95 R wheels would look most "at home" on yours Mike... If you go Brembo.

Of the 03/04 OE wheels I like the 03 Anniversary ones the best.. and they are the lightest...

I don't know how light the 95 R wheels are... They may be even lighter...

Of course there is always The Villain wheels by Maximum Motorsport... made by Konig... only $169.00 each and very light...
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/konig.asp
They almost look like an R wheel....
You could always paint them white :p

:thumbsup:

97CasperCobra
12-10-2005, 06:08 PM
95 R wheels would look most "at home" on yours Mike... If you go Brembo.

Of course there is always The Villain wheels by Maximum Motorsport... made by Konig... only $169.00 each and very light...
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/konig.asp
They almost look like an R wheel....
You could always paint them white :p

:thumbsup:

yea....I've thought about the 95 R rims. If I did get any track rims I wouldn't powdercoat them b/c I've seen it kills the structural integrity of the rims. A vette had a powdercoated rim literally come OFF at the spokes during an event at TWS.

I don't like the Koing too much....I really like the Maxxim wheels...:drool:

Admiral
12-10-2005, 06:21 PM
My understanding is that you can't find those villan rims anymore. Konig did a deal with NASA members for super cheap, all of us Mustang guys wanted to by the Villans, none to be had.

Cobra R's are pretty common so I'd understand wanting something different, for a race car they do just fine.

jimmysidecarr
12-10-2005, 06:44 PM
My understanding is that you can't find those villan rims anymore. Konig did a deal with NASA members for super cheap, all of us Mustang guys wanted to by the Villans, none to be had.

Cobra R's are pretty common so I'd understand wanting something different, for a race car they do just fine.

Bummer :(

Steeda ultra lites maybe???

When I do get dedicated track wheels and tires ...I'll probably get the 10th wheels...

Bartman01
12-11-2005, 07:14 PM
My understanding is that you can't find those villan rims anymore.

You might look around on line. Seems several sites are carrying them as "in stock" (including the MM link jimmy posted). Looks like the back spacing has been modifed slightly to accomodate coil-overs.

Al C
12-11-2005, 10:42 PM
Back to thread subject line……..

The dust boots don’t hold up for long after the track addiction sets in. Most dust boots are nuked the second or third track event once the track bug bites. I haven’t had intact boots on my caliper pistons for four or more years without any bad effects. Several of the instructors at last weeks MSR-H event who run Cobra PBR calipers had similar experience…the boot melted right away after they installed the calipers. As the years have passed they have had no issues, none have had to rebuild their calipers to replace piston seals.

While on the subject of heat from brakes….. Several of the instructors use ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid. It is made in Germany and costs about $10/liter. The dry boiling point is 536 F and the wet boiling point is 396 F. The other cool thing about it is the color is blue - they make a companion gold product as well. When bleeding the brakes the thing to do is alternate between blue and gold. Bleed the brakes one time with blue, the next time bleed them with gold. If you alternate colors between brake bleedings it makes bleeding easier because when the brake fluid color changes you immediately know that the new fresh fluid has arrived - COOL eh? One place that sells the stuff online: http://www.raceshopper.com/ate_brake_fluid.shtml

We also got into a conversation about brake pads - All agreed the stock PBR pads are some of the best for the street. For the track they recommended Porterfield R4 pads which give tremendous initial bite, wear like iron, are rotor friendly and yield about 7 or 8 events out of a set of pads and sell for about $160 a set. A dedicated set of rotors for each set of pads is recommended if you want to switch pads between street and track. They said the Hawk Blues or Blacks pads were also very good pad choices. Their braking performance was about the same, but they thought the Porterfield R4 pads wore the rotors slower than the Hawks.

97CasperCobra
12-11-2005, 11:18 PM
Several of the instructors use ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid.

Jim Boden and Edmond recommended this stuff to me last year. Good stuff and a plus that it's made in gold and blue. :thumbsup:

Admiral
12-12-2005, 09:55 AM
You might look around on line. Seems several sites are carrying them as "in stock" (including the MM link jimmy posted). Looks like the back spacing has been modifed slightly to accomodate coil-overs.

There appears to be another option, the MB Motorsport "Competition" wheel will clear the Brembo 4 pots according to this thread (http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19719&highlight=mb+motorsport) , is lighter than the 95 R and costs $147 at Discount Tire? Click here to see rims (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/findWheelDetail.do?rc=THWINT&yr=1995&wd=17&c=1&sw=false&pc=59992&rcc=&bp=&mk=FORD&dVeh=dVeh&rw=&vid=006602)

97CasperCobra
12-12-2005, 10:24 AM
There appears to be another option, the MB Motorsport "Competition" wheel will clear the Brembo 4 pots according to this thread (http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19719&highlight=mb+motorsport) , is lighter than the 95 R and costs $147 at Discount Tire? Click here to see rims (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/findWheelDetail.do?rc=THWINT&yr=1995&wd=17&c=1&sw=false&pc=59992&rcc=&bp=&mk=FORD&dVeh=dVeh&rw=&vid=006602)

These are the ones that were on the 2000 R correct?? I liked those rims...hmmmm :D

Admiral
12-12-2005, 10:38 AM
I don't think they are the same rim as the 2000 R.

97CasperCobra
12-12-2005, 10:43 AM
I don't think they are the same rim as the 2000 R.

no...I just checked my MSR pictures and found out that he did have similar ones, but his were 6-spoke.

jimmysidecarr
12-12-2005, 11:33 AM
Back to thread subject line……..

The dust boots don’t hold up for long after the track addiction sets in. Most dust boots are nuked the second or third track event once the track bug bites. I haven’t had intact boots on my caliper pistons for four or more years without any bad effects. Several of the instructors at last weeks MSR-H event who run Cobra PBR calipers had similar experience…the boot melted right away after they installed the calipers. As the years have passed they have had no issues, none have had to rebuild their calipers to replace piston seals.

While on the subject of heat from brakes….. Several of the instructors use ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid. It is made in Germany and costs about $10/liter. The dry boiling point is 536 F and the wet boiling point is 396 F. The other cool thing about it is the color is blue - they make a companion gold product as well. When bleeding the brakes the thing to do is alternate between blue and gold. Bleed the brakes one time with blue, the next time bleed them with gold. If you alternate colors between brake bleedings it makes bleeding easier because when the brake fluid color changes you immediately know that the new fresh fluid has arrived - COOL eh? One place that sells the stuff online: http://www.raceshopper.com/ate_brake_fluid.shtml

We also got into a conversation about brake pads - All agreed the stock PBR pads are some of the best for the street. For the track they recommended Porterfield R4 pads which give tremendous initial bite, wear like iron, are rotor friendly and yield about 7 or 8 events out of a set of pads and sell for about $160 a set. A dedicated set of rotors for each set of pads is recommended if you want to switch pads between street and track. They said the Hawk Blues or Blacks pads were also very good pad choices. Their braking performance was about the same, but they thought the Porterfield R4 pads wore the rotors slower than the Hawks.

WOW!!! GOOD STUFF!!!
I was wondering if anyone had put some serious time and miles on calipers with burned off boots...
Now I can relax and focus on getting a track only pad that will live...
I have a spare set of rotors... so a dedicated track set up is very do-able :thumbsup:

I have also heard that both Hawk(black and blue) and Porterfield R4s are great pads.... just don't run them on the street.

That's good to know about the rotor wear issue... the spare rotors I have are close to minimum spec.... guess I'll use those for the street...

Overall this thread has got some excellent track tech... Excellent wheel clearance and availability info!!!
Plus brake info!!! :thumbsup:

Levi
12-13-2005, 11:47 AM
I need new rotors front and rear, after 70k + miles and six open track events and of course a couple three auto-x’s. Pad wise, this time I will go with some thing a little more for street-track then track-street. Right now I am using Hawk blacks and I think I will use in the future the Hawk HP Plus with some slotted rotors. :cool: