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Dave B.
02-09-2006, 09:11 PM
well im getting a whipple and wanted to see if anyone have a 17 Lbs pulley one one and had any issues with the stock fuel pump?

Iv been round and round with this question, some say I have to change both the fuel pump and injectors, then some say just the injectors, then some say i can make 600 RWHP with just changing the injectors, geez,

I would like to hear from someone that actualy has one

blk04cobra1
02-09-2006, 09:24 PM
I can tell you that when you get upwards of the 550+ mark, you never want to run out of fuel. If it were me, the least I would is the injectors, focus or GT pumps, and a boost-a-pump from Kenne Bell....if it were me, id do like I did and go return style, but it's not cheap...but i wont run out of fuel til the 1200rwhp mark :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-09-2006, 10:06 PM
what about racing seats?? I need to get farther back a few inches and no one has those rail extenders, the company that made them is out of business,
so my other option is to buy some Corbeau CR1's they go back farther and im hoping to get about an inch lower in the seat,

anyone have these??? talk to me!!

InfamousSVT
02-09-2006, 11:21 PM
The absolute minimum you can do for the fuel system is 60lbs injectors and the KB BAP. I would recommend getting the upgraded fuel pumps. www.lethalperformance.com (http://www.lethalperformance.com) has a great deal on pumps and they also have the Aviator or Ford GT fuel pumps (comparable to the 255lph pumps).


For the seat extenders try here: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03cobraseat.htm

Hope that helps! Good luck :D

Dave B.
02-09-2006, 11:43 PM
RPMOUTLET no longer carries those seat rail extentions, they were the first one I called, in fact the company that made those track extenders went out of business, I see they still have them on there web site,,,but no go

kilroy
02-10-2006, 12:35 AM
well im getting a whipple and wanted to see if anyone have a 17 Lbs pulley one one and had any issues with the stock fuel pump?

Iv been round and round with this question, some say I have to change both the fuel pump and injectors, then some say just the injectors, then some say i can make 600 RWHP with just changing the injectors, geez,

I would like to hear from someone that actualy has oneDave, I have a 3.20" RR (15~15.5 PSI) upper, stock lower, KB BAP & stock pumps, Siemens 60#ers. My BAP is set to "15" & the FJO wideband read 11.5->11.2 A/F during WOT & a perfect 14.7 under normal cruise & idle...
I was first in line for the ATS dyno day (http://www.badmustangsclub.com/gallery/misc.php?do=downloadfile&i=1625) & we had strap clearance issues (no better way to say it) & were unable to load trunk monkies to help weigh the car down to aid traction. Rick stopped the pull around 6k with the tires blowing off & I got a 575/523 printout (http://upstatemustangclub.com/verboten/jc/GingerMDdyno.jpg) for that aborted run...

On to this past Tuesday. First half of the day Rick was welding in full length sub-frame connectors. The second part of the day was spent swapping out my SCT chip for an XCAL2 (so I can datalog) with the same program as was in my chip & swapping on a 3" RR upper (17psi). Rick was prepared to make adjustments as necessary but here's what we found out on Ginger - your results may vary:

We crossed the straps (no clearance issue) & with KB & myself in the trunk this time (+480 lbs) the tires began blowing off earlier, around ~4k :cool:. I readjusted the straps & finally got near a full pull & then thermal overload. She laid over :eek: & Rick got off it... My fuel pump duty cycle was 100% by 5800 with the new 3" upper pulley. Done. Fin. Game over,man. Rail pressure held @39, A/F went up to 11.7 :( but the fuel pumps were taxed. It was late (7pm), we were all tired, and it was obvious we weren't fixing the issue(s) that night so we dropped back to the 3.2" upper (15.5psi) & tune where Ginger rocks & called it a night. Have I ever mentioned Rick's customer service is second to none?:headbang:

As Ginger is daily driven, I need reliability before I need that extra power - we'll get my issue(s) resolved & I'll let you know what all we find. I'll most likely go with a custom fuel pump/delivery setup - but that'll come a little later.

What works on one car may not work on yours. Most importantly your tuner should know what to look at during/after datalogging the tuning session to make recommendations for your car. Use our comments recommendations as guidelines but trust your tuner.

I do not think you will get the numbers safely (or at all) with stock injectors... In addition to injectors a BAP, Focus/Aviator pumps, or BOTH :D may be required. Looks that way for my girl.

Dave B.
02-10-2006, 12:55 AM
so what your saying is 15 Lbs with the OEM pump was OK but with the larger injectors, yet once you tried to go to 17 Lbs the pumps ran out of power???

Right?

kilroy
02-10-2006, 01:34 AM
so what your saying is 15 Lbs with the OEM pump was OK but with the larger injectorsI'm saying my setup for 15psi was without issue using OEM pumps, 60#ers, stock lines & rails & KB BAP(@15) Had it been able to hook, I'd made 600-610(says Rick) click (http://upstatemustangclub.com/verboten/jc/GingerMDdyno.jpg)for the graph...

yet once you tried to go to 17 Lbs the pumps ran out of power???

Right?My fuel pumps were 100% by 5800 i.e. outa fuel capacity @ 5800 with 3" upper, yes... I was making more power earlier & towards the top there was no more to be had.

As you turn the blower faster you'll need more fuel. Am I saying you will hit the wall as I did? I really don't know.

Pro-Dyno
02-12-2006, 12:54 AM
The issue you are going to run in to is volume. the factory lines cannot support enough volume to keep up with more than 15# of boost. you literally suck them dry not really but close enough.:D

You need 60# inj and jdm style duel lines fuel system & stock pumps. with this set up it will give a range around 670rwhp boost a pump is a bandage that can fail. if you are going to spend the money on a wipple why slouch on the fuel system. as for a stand alone fuel system it comes with a huge sacrifice to drivability. these cars are set up to run with a return less fuel system. when you put in a return style the computer goes crazy because it can not control fuel pressure. if you do not think 670rwhp is not enough range use the focus pumps and you should yield around 780rwhp.:thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-12-2006, 01:24 AM
from WHipple them selves:

"Up to 600RWHP can be made so long as 42 LBS injectors are used as this is the absolut HP limit of the OEM Cobra pumps"

Now thats what Whipple says, but im just going ahead bitting the bullet, and buying the Focus pumps also, its a very very large check to write,

Whipple SC $3400
Injectors $450
Pumps $260 (pair)
labor $700
tax $336
shipping $100 (aprox)
----------------------
= $5246 (est of course)

anyone want my stock Eaton with a Billetflow 2.76 pulley and an Aux-idler??? anyone??

blk04cobra1
02-12-2006, 08:55 AM
very nice mod list, Dave...and if someone over here doesnt buy the blower, I know someone on another site will :thumbsup:

mkkrs1
02-12-2006, 10:12 AM
So how are you going to get all this power to hook up? If you can't catch traction whats the point in having 600+. I'm no where near that and 1st gear is all smoke on street tires and most of 2nd.

Pro-Dyno
02-12-2006, 11:05 AM
some one at wipple must have type error because 42# injector’s aren’t going past 510rwhp before they are at 100% duty cycle they are rated for 600 crank and the pumps go a lot further when you increase the fuel lines to a duel line system.

kilroy
02-12-2006, 11:45 AM
So how are you going to get all this power to hook up? If you can't catch traction whats the point in having 600+. I'm no where near that and 1st gear is all smoke on street tires and most of 2nd.DRs or slicks :thumbsup: Otherwise, you're drifting

Dave B.
02-12-2006, 07:33 PM
now see thats what I mean about this kind of stuff, everyone has a differant story, you say 42 lbs wont handle it and the tech guy at Whipple says it will, now what am I supposed to do now?? what data can you supply me to back what you say up??

they said they have data to back them up?? what say you ?

blk04cobra1
02-12-2006, 08:01 PM
I say...go with the 60's...the worst thing you can do now (assuming you're getting the Whipple) is starve the motor of fuel, trust me. (not saying that you are) Dont do this half-ass, go all out or nothing :thumbsup: . you've built a very nice car, i'd hate to see it not give you it's full potential b/c you took the short road. Also, i'd heed Dan's advice, he's done quite a few whipples/kb's and he'll be doing my turbo car here in a few weeks :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-12-2006, 08:23 PM
I would like to hear again from Dan on my question, why is Whipple telling us 42Lbs injectors?? why would they say that??

I want to hear some specifics on this, I absolutly hate it when there is a differant story on the same question,,,there can only be one right and one wrong

Dave B.
02-12-2006, 11:07 PM
The shop working on my car is True Performance here in Sarasota,FL
we are getting the two Focus SVT pumps.

the guy there has called around, and 42's were what they told him, now if 60's are what we need, I have no problem buying and installing them, guess the other question would be, is there a down side to drivability going slow? or crusing? if you know these answers for sure then please explain this, thanks

Big Daddy
02-12-2006, 11:39 PM
I don't have any data but I had 42lb injectors and they crapped out around 525 rwhp. I now have 55lb injectors, upgraded fuel lines, '03/'04 pumps and tank and a Boost-a-pump. I now have enough fuel system to get me to around 650 rwhp. The 600 rwhp is already to much to get any traction. The more power the more important the suspension, brakes, and tires!

Dave B.
02-12-2006, 11:55 PM
ok, I see, instead of buying the two Focus SVT pumps buy some other type of higher power pump yet?? what is this boost a pump thing??

hey where can I find some dyno charts on 03-04 cobras with bigger Superchargers?? I would like to see what some of these are really doing??

Dave B.
02-13-2006, 12:56 AM
I just read about the Boost A Pump,

I think I understand it, at first I thought it was some type of in fuel line boost pump but its not, Am i correct in saying that all it does is keep the voltage/current that supplys the fuel pump with power, high so that the pump works at its peek, thus out performing larger pumps that start to run down on current durring the run? am I wrong?? can I use one of these with what ever larger injectors instead of replacing the stock fuel pumps? and can it be set at one voltage and left?

NO 5 OH
02-13-2006, 01:36 AM
There seems to be some "mis-information" going on around here so I'll try to guide you in the right direction. This is stuff I have read, and factual data that I have aquired through dynoing my own car.

A Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump increases the voltage to the pumps making the pumps work harder than what they do under normal circumstances. When they first developed the 2.2L for the 03 Cobra they managed to get 617 rwhp with the stock injectors, pumps and lines. This was at 21 psi from what I read. What they didn't say in that article of BS they wrote was that they were using 100 octane unleaded in those tests so this wasn't horsepower that was made on pump gas and this wasn't on a "stock" tune either. It says in Whipple's instructions (and used to on their site) that the Cobra stock fuel system/injectors are "okay for 13 psi." So from what testing KB did... you can make 600 + to the tires on the stock injectors... I just wouldn't recommend doing it.

On my car I run a 3.20 upper/2 lb lower and see about 17 psi... a little more now that it's cold outside. I have the 60 lb injectors, and a KB BAP set to 30%... I've made 613/577 to the tires with a really rich tune (IE in the 10's air/fuel wise). At this horsepower level I am maxing the pump duty cycle out... and this is never a good idea. I need to upgrade my fuel system but haven't had the money to do so yet. I wouldn't waste the time/money on the Focus pumps as there are better alternatives out there and there has been testing done that shows they aren't as adequate as the stock pumps plus a BAP. For 600 plus to the tires I would think at minimum you'd need this:

60 lb injectors/harnesses
Wiring upgrade from battery to pumps (8 or 10 gauge wire)
Aviator or Ford GT pumps
8an feed line from fuel pump hat to rails, new filter with 8an inlet/outlet

Lethal Performance has a complete, ready to go fuel system that will support all the horsepower you'd ever need and comes complete, but it is expensive at 1400 dollars shipped for everything. Since you are in Florida I would talk to Sam at Coastal Dyno as he's the one that came up with this fuel system, and ask his opinion on what you should have in order to get enough fuel to your car for the blower upgrade.

This is all my opinion... that and fifty cents will get you a pack of crackers ;) Use the information wisely :D



Shannon

Pro-Dyno
02-13-2006, 07:28 AM
I can pm you the names of a few shops that I have tuned these for and were told the same things. As well as I have tuned 100ed's of kb & Wipple cars. I tune for a living this is my profession and if you came to me with 42’s and a whipple I would have to send you home so we wouldn’t waste each others time a wipple car with 15# boost should easily make 560rwhp-580rwhp this will far exceed what a 42# inj can handle.:)

kilroy
02-13-2006, 10:10 AM
This is all my opinion... that and fifty cents will get you a pack of crackers ;) Use the information wisely :D
ShannonPack 'o crackas, yo :rotf: You coming down to play @ Jackson this Saturday Shannon? Hope you can make it out :cool:

Linn@Amazon
02-13-2006, 07:12 PM
you will need 60# injectors ..we do Whipple installs very frequently and this is a must even for low boost.

Dave B.
02-13-2006, 07:24 PM
60 Lbs injectors it is then, I spoke with a guy my self this time at Whipple today, he did'nt know a dang thing about which injectors to use,

I looked into it a little more and sure enough, 600 RWHP will need 60 pounders,,,,,,,,,that is all

blk04cobra1
02-13-2006, 07:53 PM
If you need some, let me know...we can get them for a pretty good deal with the harnesses that you'll need :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-13-2006, 08:26 PM
Harness???????? does it not come with the injectors?

InfamousSVT
02-14-2006, 02:56 AM
Harness???????? does it not come with the injectors?
Nope, you'll have to purchase the injector harnesses too. Usually around $130 or so.

blk04cobra1
02-14-2006, 08:21 AM
Dave, i tried to shoot you a PM...we can do the everything for $425 shipped...that includes anyone on the board.

Linn@Amazon
02-14-2006, 01:33 PM
I need to find out who your supplier is Torrey best I can do is $480 for injectors and harnesses

Pro-Dyno
02-14-2006, 09:28 PM
That is a deal:)

Dave B.
02-14-2006, 09:51 PM
Well you know I would love to have done this mod,, but because of the manager of TRUE PERFORMANCE IN SARASOTA,FL and the fact that he was not doing his job of finding all this stuff out, I HAD TO MAKE ALL THESE CALLS, then when I told JERRY,at TRUE PERFORMANCE IN SARASOTA,FL these facts, they got mad and told me not to come back to there fine shop,

so, the moto is I guess, if you go around them to get information because they did not want to do it in a timly manor, they just dont want your or my business, guess Ill just sell the car like I was going to do in the first place

kilroy
02-14-2006, 10:30 PM
~ guess Ill just sell the car like I was going to do in the first placeSay it isn't SO :what:
Not all tuners are equal & it sounds as though your guy doesn't have an "A" game going on. Don't let that discourage you - find a better tuner to deal with. You know who gets my vote - but just about anyone today can work with you remotely if you'd let them.
Hang in there, Dave.

Dave B.
02-14-2006, 10:50 PM
Im vey extreamly upset with these guys at TRUE PERFORMANCE IN SARASOTA,FL Im so upset over the whole screwed up deal that I know if I were to bite the bullet on trading in my car on something else, then I never need to worry about dealing with them again, NEVER,

If I were to keep my car then I have no shop close by to go to, just cannot go to a regular shop with a car like this, these guys did all the work, but they just got to the point one customer was not worth going thru any trouble for,

I see no way to keep it, cant put a Whipple on without a shop that can support such a machine,

Pro-Dyno
02-14-2006, 11:18 PM
That is unbelivable i cant belive some of the people in this industry is this the shop that does alot of porsche's. i have family down there in turtal rock. sorry for your troubles

Dave B.
02-14-2006, 11:30 PM
The main guy there is Dave, nice guy, he not the problem,
his business manager that writes up the estimates, answers the phone, the guy thats supposed to reach out and obtain all this information, JERRY
is the guy that felt he just had to do this stuff his way and got with Daves 51% partner and got him to pull rank and basicly told me they dont want to do my work anymore, not to come back, I was too much trouble, I was too demanding, it was one of these deals where they say they will order your performance parts then never do day after day after day due to the fact they were just too busy with other stuff, Look, when im going to lay out $5800 with a shop,,,,,,I expect some dam service ya know?

Pro-Dyno
02-15-2006, 12:33 AM
I dont Blame

you a bit i would be pissed

Dave B.
02-15-2006, 12:40 AM
If I do this now, the only way Im going to do it is only with the 13 Lbs pulley that comes on the Whipple, im not changing injectors, im not changing pumps,

its too much trouble, Im just wondering since I have a 2,76 pulley on my Eaton now, by just installing the Whipple with its 13 Lbs pulley if Ill even notice it, or if I do, will I notice it $3800 worth,,,,,,what say you?

blk04cobra1
02-15-2006, 08:28 AM
Let me correct myself....$425 for the 60's, no harnesses...$490 with harnesses, so Linn, you still have us beat :thumbsup:

Linn@Amazon
02-15-2006, 11:40 AM
Dave..I dont want to sound harsh but you have to look at the possiblilty that you will need bigger injectors with a Whipple install..even at 13 psi..

Im sorry that you had a bad experieince with your present shop..there is just no excuse for that kind of treatment but unfortunately it is very prevelant in this industry. I have been concerned about some of the advice they have given you about your car..We have done many many Whipple install on 03/04 Cobras because 90% of our business is working with 03/04 Cobras... please feel free to contact me with any questions that you might have about your vehicle. Rick has tuned hundreds and hundreds of them..many on site many via email 864 332 0955 if you have any questions about Rick credentials as a tuner please visit our website www.amazonracing.com (http://www.amazonracing.com/)

Pro-Dyno
02-15-2006, 01:35 PM
the stock injectores will alow you to go to around 512rwhp. but because of the volume that a wipple puts out at the same boost you will be at a much higher power level. my guess at that boost 530-550 rwhp you will still need a mass air and injectores.:) so unfortinutly it will not work with your stock inj and maf .