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View Full Version : how well does Porting an Eaton work?


Dave B.
02-17-2006, 10:11 PM
I came to the conclusion that I just dont want to spend the coins to buy and install injectors and Focus pumps, and that I would just install the Whipple with the 13 LBs pulley that comes on it, thats about $3700 plus $250 for the tune, then I was told with my 2.76 pulley I have on my Eaton, if I just had my Eaton Ported, I would end up with about the same power and Torque as I would with an Eaton with the Whipple and its 13 Lbs pulley,

What say you with ported Blowers?? theres no since in me spending $3950 if im going to get the same or close to it, for $450 compleat, tuned in all.

Big T
02-17-2006, 10:23 PM
I've been pondering the same thing. I guess what you have to consider is if you will be satisfied with the power from the port. I'm sure you will love it at first but will be looking for more in a few months. You could get a lower pulley after that. But will you have to then have to get the bigger injectors and mabye a BAP? The good thing is that you could probably do the mods yourself and stay away from that shop you've been dealing with. The whipple or Kenne bell will give you lots of power to play with but you know you will keep pushing for more and that will just eventually lead to other upgrades $$$ or broken parts. I can't make up my mind.

Dave B.
02-17-2006, 10:38 PM
I know that once the Eaton gets ported thats it for power, I would very much like to here from two or more of you out there that have actualy ported Eatons and what exact numbers on the Dyno you have,

the other thing is I have a 2.76 pulley now, I do not think I can put a lower pulley on without going to something like a 2,93 upper can I??

Pro-Dyno
02-18-2006, 01:08 AM
Very well stage 4 port job 2.8 uper and 4lb lower 520-530 rwhp sae we have done 3 in the last month all about the same scrmngdave (http://www.svtcobraclub.com/forums/member.php?u=2633) vbmenu_register("postmenu_168285", true); next post down hase this set up finished it thursday night :D as for your pricing that seems a little low for a good port and tune i think the port alone is $500-$600. :thumbsup:

Ram77mus
02-18-2006, 03:03 AM
The Stiegemeier stage 4 is GREATTTTT. I was VERY happy with the power mine picked up from a old Apten port vs stage4(old Apten 481hp/511tq vs stage4 531ph/564tq). I love it , and all the other's we've tuned in the past mounth or so have worked great . I think everyone should try it be for you spend BIG buck's on KB or whipple. The port from Stiege. is only $545 and well worth it. O'ya every car that makes 500hp plus gets a Stiegemeier 500hp club T-shirt from them, so that mean bring it to us and they give you a T-shirt - funny how that works.:) my set up: stage 4 -2.8 upper/ 4lbs lower- ported stock throttle body and plenum- UPR cold/air intake - my ice box - offroad Xpipe- MagnaFlow c/b-and "THE TUNE" :cool:

scrmngdave
02-18-2006, 08:57 AM
:thumbsup: Ditto on the port!! I was in the same dilema as you guys as for porting or going whipple? hmmm!? Went with the port and the results speak for themselves! I use a 2.75 upper and 2lb lower, the result is still 16lbs of boost. Steigemeier recomends running their ported blowers at 16-17lbs, so thats what we do. True, you will eventually get used to 530rwhp and 530rwtq, but it should take quite a while, and then maybe spend the money and get the kenne bell or whipple. Oh yeah, I do use the 60lb injectors, but no BAP, the rest of the fuel system is bone stock! So is Robs car. The stock pumps and lines will support 550. Think of it this way, go with the port, when you're ready to step up to the KB or whipple, you can always sell the ported eaton and get your money back out of it. A ported eaton is always worth more than a stock eaton! Good luck:D

ausie
02-18-2006, 09:15 AM
I would almost ponder the same question. From all the hype about the twin screw supercharger (whipple or Kenn Belle) as it seems it is the only positive displacement unit design that actually compresses air between the rotors where as the Eaton (roots design) only pushes the air and the compression takes place in the lower plenum area. However, the M112 is a modified Roots type which is a bit closer to that of the twin scew than a traditional roots blower. What makes the Kenn Bell or Whipple attractive is the displacement size of 2.2L(kb), 2.3L(w) or 2.4L(kb) which will provide more air flow than the Eaton M112 which has a much smaller displacement of 1.9L. Porting the Eaton will effectively increase the flow rate but reduce the air velocity since the air is not getting forced through a small output port which should also result in lower discharge temperatures. Comparing a Whipple or KB having a displacement of 2.2L or larger to the small 1.9L Eaton having the same psi output is pointless since the whipple or KB have a larger flow rate (more volume of air). In essence, you should get more HP/torque from a 2.2L blower than a 1.9L blower at the same PSI value. Also to maintain the same flow rate with the smaller blower, it has to spin faster than the larger unit which will increase the discharge temperature but if it is ported, the increase in discharge temperature will be lower than that of one that is not ported. Lower discharge temperatures allows for more advance timming resulting in more HP and Tourque.

ausie
02-18-2006, 09:18 AM
oops, forgot this part, porting the Eaton should also reduce the hp losses to spin the rotors since the flow rate is less restricted than if not ported.

Texaslawdawg
02-18-2006, 12:16 PM
Steggy ported eatons are awesome! with a little spray you can see 600rwhp pretty easily...

scrmngdave
02-18-2006, 02:11 PM
The description that Aussie gave was awesome, and basically explains why the fuel system must be upgraded when you bolt on a KB or Whipple, even at the stock boost level. The ported eaton will give comparable power, at a much lesser dollar amount, $600vs$4,000. And, with some 60lb inj, your stock feul system will support the power.

Linn@Amazon
02-18-2006, 04:16 PM
there is a possiblity that you will still need to do fuel upgrades and a MAF with a ported Eaton. only the data will tell once the car is getting dyno tuned but we very rarely see an install that doesnt need some upgrades done.Especially if the car is over 500HP.. Each car is different so it hard to say for sure. you need to be aware that this could be a possibility for your vehicle.

Rockets04Cobra
02-18-2006, 05:22 PM
Well, I've got a KB 2.2L that put down 597rwhp at 5900rpm on stock pumps, 60lb Inj, and no-boost a pump (BAP). My SCT tuner wanted to test out the stock fuel pumps with 60lb's just to see what he could do, but pressure drops to pump before redline, so 6k rpm is all we could take it up to before it went above a 12:0 air/fuel ratio.
The KB BAP should get us up to 630rwhp on a 91octane tuning, I am going to say around 16-17deg timing, with Stock Fuel Pumps, and on 18psi.
I'll know here in about 2 weeks hopefully, when I get some time to put on the BAP and re-tune it. I'll let you know. I think to hit above 650+hp to the rear wheels might take a pump upgrade and thicker wiring to fuel pumps.

Rockets04Cobra
02-18-2006, 05:39 PM
there is a possiblity that you will still need to do fuel upgrades and a MAF with a ported Eaton.
I too would look into whether another MAF is needed before you get it onto the dyno :thumbsup: Not sure if 500rwhp pegs it, but it will be getting close probably.

Red03
02-18-2006, 05:46 PM
I have to agree with all the Stiggy praise. I have Stage III and wow what a difference. Stiggy ported the blower, intake and TB in mine, I also added 2.93 billetflow pulley adn the idlers, and Dan at Pro Dyno did the tune. Before the port my car made my mods where Stock headers witha full catted Bassani exhuast, and A K&N FIPK. Numbers before where 435 RWHP and 395 RWTQ, after port and pulley 490 rwhp and 480 RWTQ. Could have got more out of it but my MAF was pegged, and Dan did not want to go any higher. Not sure how much PSI I'm pushing, I don't have an aftermarket gauge. But I can tell you it pegs the stock gauge quick. When I return Iraq, I'm going to go with 2lb, maybe a 4 lb lower, and a larger MAF. And of course a new tune from Dan, hopefully that will put me up over 500 RWHP, and 500 RWTQ. I'm hoping I don't have to change the pump, anf injectors. But as ATS said every car is different, I've heard of some that needed to change and some that didn't.

If you go with a 2.76 you will probably have to change the MAF for sure. I would also recommend a aftermerket heat exchanger, cause spinning the blower faster generates more heat. I have a Gords Ford in my car and very pleased with it. ATS, and LPF both sell quality products and you can use the club discount. Not a short answer to your question but I thought you should have the information. Hope this helped.

Dave B.
02-19-2006, 01:40 AM
ok thanks all, very informative,
Im going to go with Porting my Eaton, and if im correct in reading all these posts, I am only running a 2,76 SC pulley, and just the stock lower,

will I get a very large noticable gain by having a 2 LBs lower installed and still us the 2,76 upper??

I was told some time ago that I could not use the 2,76 upper if I have a lower of any size installed,,,,,yes, no , maybe???

scrmngdave
02-19-2006, 09:22 AM
Dave B, you can run a 2lb lower with the 2.76 upper. That's pretty much the same combo I'm running. You won't be dissapointed with your decision. The MAF will need to be changed to the SCT Big Air meter, but you should be fine with the rest of the fuel system. I wasn't including the MAF in the fuel system, that's more electronics, but it will probally peg @500rwhp. Anyway, enjoy, for the money spent per power gained, it is truly awesome!

Oh, you will need a different belt if you go with the 2lb lower. :thumbsup:

ausie
02-19-2006, 01:44 PM
The cost of having the Eaton ported is very tempting. I may just start off small with just a pully change since everything under the hood is still esentially stock with the exception of a few parts. At times I want more and sometimes I think it has too much.... I guess I am a satisfied customer for the time being.:thumbsup:

Big T
02-19-2006, 10:52 PM
Dave B

If you look on the members section of the Amazon Racing website you will see many with upper/lower combos. There are a few with 2.8 uppers and 4# lowers with ported blowers. I'm going to get mine done in April. I'm building a house now and will have to wait but its definite. I'm going to get the stage 4 port from steig., 2 or 4# lower, heat exchanger, 60# injectors, and probably a new mass air. I should be satisfied with this. I also do not have any suspension upgrades to handle the new power. I won't be doing any hard launches. I don't know where I'm going to get my tune yet. I just want to be able to take down any new Z06's if necessary.

Dave B.
02-19-2006, 11:13 PM
Are you guys not the first bit worried about loosing that extra bearing and support/protection for the crank shaft that happens when installing a lower pulley?

the strain on the front crank from the belts must be huge,

Dave B.
02-20-2006, 11:24 PM
Im placing an order at once for a Stiegemeier stage 4
they swear 50 HP more from the 468 RWHP that im at now, personaly id be surprised if its that much, but I told them what I had and thats what they said I would get, I also told them I would pay the extra $120 to have all new bearings and seals installed, I cannot beleive they sell them without doing that to every single one of them. thank you all for this idea,

I save about $2700 instead of spending $3400 for the Whipple and without spending a lot of extra money for Injectors and fuel pumps,
it would have produced about the same power,,instead I spend only $625 for the stage 4,,,,,,ill owe you all a brewsky

Ram77mus
02-21-2006, 12:46 AM
Im placing an order at once for a Stiegemeier stage 4
they swear 50 HP more from the 468 RWHP that im at now, personaly id be surprised if its that much, but I told them what I had and thats what they said I would get, I also told them I would pay the extra $120 to have all new bearings and seals installed, I cannot beleive they sell them without doing that to every single one of them. thank you all for this idea,

I save about $2700 instead of spending $3400 for the Whipple and without spending a lot of extra money for Injectors and fuel pumps,
it would have produced about the same power,,instead I spend only $625 for the stage 4,,,,,,ill owe you all a brewskyI think you will be very happy with it, good luck and let us know how you make out:)

Linn@Amazon
02-21-2006, 12:50 PM
we just did a Steg STage 4 car install and tune 522HP/527TQ

Dave B.
02-21-2006, 07:21 PM
but what about this folklor going around about loosing Torque with a ported Eaton??

Im just driving on the street, cant have that

say that 522 RWHP was that with a lower pulley?

Big T
02-21-2006, 07:40 PM
but what about this folklor going around about loosing Torque with a ported Eaton??

Im just driving on the street, cant have that
There's a link on the steig website about that. The problem was that if the boost bypass is not disabled then you will lose torque. You can manually do this of have it done in the tune (I think). I saw some dyno graphs explaining this. Are you going to do any other mods with this (fuel delivery)? I would love to not have to do them.

Dave B.
02-21-2006, 08:07 PM
No im doing doing anything at all to the fuel system, thats the whole reason my Whipple deal fell thru, every single place i went to about that question over what needed to be done when using either a 15 Lbs or a 19 Lbs pulley with the Whipple,

I got a differant answer from everyone, it was the worst, some said with a 15 Lbs only the injectors needed changed, others say fuel pumps, others say fuel pumps, injectors and fuel lines,

but with the stage 4 I dont have to do anything other than bolt it on, dont need to even Dyno tune

blk04cobra1
02-21-2006, 08:11 PM
No im doing doing anything at all to the fuel system, thats the whole reason my Whipple deal fell thru, every single place i went to about that question over what needed to be done when using either a 15 Lbs or a 19 Lbs pulley with the Whipple,

I got a differant answer from everyone, it was the worst, some said with a 15 Lbs only the injectors needed changed, others say fuel pumps, others say fuel pumps, injectors and fuel lines,

but with the stage 4 I dont have to do anything other than bolt it on, dont need to even Dyno tune
I wouldnt rule all those options out, some have had to add a new MAF, some new injectors, some new fuel pumps...the worst thing you can do is starve the motor...oh and you will want to get a new dyno tune :thumbsup: .

Dave B.
02-21-2006, 09:21 PM
guess ill ask that question to you Stage 4 folks now,

How many of you had to change out injectors?
how many of you had to change out mass air meters?
how many of you had to change out fuel pumps?

Steigemeier says the meter on the car should read the additional air just fine up to about 6200 RPM, since theres no power above that anyway, seems ok to me,

scrmngdave
02-21-2006, 11:10 PM
Dave B, I'm sure all the other guys here running the ported stieg blowers can fill you in on each particular combination, they're all different, and each car will experience different requirements. My particular combination, stage 4 port, 2.75 upper, 2lb lower, required only the mass air and injectors. I have seen other guys that required only the mass air upgrade. No matter what, you will most definately need to have the car re-tuned for the blower. At that time, any shortcoming of the electronics or fuel(MAF or INJ) will show up. You won't be dissapointed with the power or the money you've saved, even if you do have to upgrade the MAF and INJ. :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-22-2006, 12:17 AM
how will I know if I need that other stuff??

I have an AEM Wideband, but before I had my last Dyno tune, my wideband did not show any issues at the time but the Dyno air/fuel did, all that aside, will it run screwy?

blk04cobra1
02-22-2006, 08:56 AM
The car on the same tune, plus the ported blower will run screwy. It's adding 50hp, so you have to compensate for that in the tune. Your dyno readout will show if your pegging the MAF, your datalog of the fuel pump duty cycle will show if you're maxing out your pumps. I just want you to get the most out of your car, safely...not just trying to get you to spend more money.

Linn@Amazon
02-22-2006, 05:56 PM
how will I know if I need that other stuff??


datalogs will tell the story.. the guys have given you very good info...the reason there are different answers is because each car had different results from the data while dyno tuning it. You have to be prepared to do these upgrades..otherwise you will be buying a new motor...whether you need them or not is still to be established

mkkrs1
02-22-2006, 07:54 PM
The car on the same tune, plus the ported blower will run screwy. It's adding 50hp, so you have to compensate for that in the tune. Your dyno readout will show if your pegging the MAF, your datalog of the fuel pump duty cycle will show if you're maxing out your pumps. I just want you to get the most out of your car, safely...not just trying to get you to spend more money.
where on the print out is that? (MAF)

blk04cobra1
02-22-2006, 08:40 PM
you can tell by the A/F and how the curve moves :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-22-2006, 09:09 PM
Well at least I have a wideband in the car,
based of what you all have been telling me I called Stiegemeier once more and possed the main guy there whos name is Bob, hes the actual machinest that ports the Eatons, he says even with my 2.76 pulley, and so long as im not running a lower, my mass air should be good up to 6200 RPM,

I asked about having to tune the car again, he said the mass air should see the increase air flow and ad more fuel, he said most people with a stage 4 that are not running a lower pulley, are able to bolt on and go,

as far as this mass air you all are talking about, I have one of those 95MM mass air meters that came with a MAC Cold air kit, but it used my sensor that came out of the OEM meter, where the wire plugs in, iv since taken the 95MM meter off as it leaned it out too much, its that the meter you guys are talking about? or are you talking about a differant sensor that would get held into the meter/tube that plugs into the wiring harness??

mkkrs1
02-22-2006, 09:39 PM
you can tell by the A/F and how the curve moves :thumbsup:
I'll bring my sheet and let you or Will look at it. Is Dan still on for monday?

Dave B.
02-22-2006, 10:46 PM
does anyone have a Dyno tuning sheet after they put one of these ported blowers on there car??

blk04cobra1
02-23-2006, 08:15 AM
I'll bring my sheet and let you or Will look at it. Is Dan still on for monday?
Dan's on for Monday...if you were close, he would've said something to you...i bet though with the power you are putting out now, if you port/add a lower, you'll need one :thumbsup:

ORANGE CRUSH
02-23-2006, 01:02 PM
Steg III ported blower and 2.93 pulley (no lower)

Peged the stock MAF @ 6000rpm

Got a SCT MAF 28000 and retuned it.

Everything is fine now and somewhat happy with the results.

I do understand if I want more out of it I have to spen it faster.

487rwhp and 470rwtq with a very safe road race tune 11.2 A/F

Drag race tune is 491rwhp and 485rwtq @ 11.6 A/F

blk04cobra1
02-23-2006, 01:51 PM
Steg III ported blower and 2.93 pulley (no lower)

Peged the stock MAF @ 6000rpm

Got a SCT MAF 28000 and retuned it.

Everything is fine now and somewhat happy with the results.

I do understand if I want more out of it I have to spen it faster.

487rwhp and 470rwtq with a very safe road race tune 11.2 A/F

Drag race tune is 491rwhp and 485rwtq @ 11.6 A/F
oh yeah, add a 4lb lower and you'll see 520+rwhp with those numbers :thumbsup:

ronster
02-23-2006, 08:48 PM
We recently completed our 50th 03-04 Cobra tune and upgrade in 9 months. The last one opted for the Steigmeier Stage 4, pulleys, Cat-Back, BA2400, and our X-Cal 2 tuning. 532 rwhp. We also did the "anti-wheel hp" kit. All kidding aside, at 100mph in 4th you break them loose. I have never been on a ride with a customer that screamed louder then the blower during the test drive. An awesome, scary ride.

Ron

Dave B.
02-23-2006, 09:08 PM
Ron man you forgot to tell us if it tuned without pegging the mass air???

blk04cobra1
02-23-2006, 09:44 PM
Ron man you forgot to tell us if it tuned without pegging the mass air???
He wouldnt have pegged it with the SCT2400 MAF :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-23-2006, 09:50 PM
so I need a SCT2400 ??
some one told me about a jumper wire that goes between the mass air sensor and the wiring harness, called "the Mafia" what do you recomend?

Rockets04Cobra
02-23-2006, 09:58 PM
so I need a SCT2400 ??
some one told me about a jumper wire that goes between the mass air sensor and the wiring harness, called "the Mafia" what do you recomend?
BA2400 SCT MAF:thumbsup:

blk04cobra1
02-24-2006, 05:54 AM
so I need a SCT2400 ??
some one told me about a jumper wire that goes between the mass air sensor and the wiring harness, called "the Mafia" what do you recomend?
either one...the Mafia is a little less expensive, but you have to "dial" it in...it has 7 different settings...with your power though, you should just be able to put it on setting 2, plug it in and go...the SCT however, you just plug in and do nothing (im switching over to the SCT with the Mafia, so hopefully we wont peg the MAF this time around). I think the 2400 is good up to 650rwhp and the 2800 800rwhp. The Mafia is good up to about 800rwhp.

ronster
02-24-2006, 02:34 PM
We found on the 03/04's the MAF will peg around 500 HP. On the Lightnings around 475/480 HP. Although the Mafia is adjustable, and offers a way to tailor the curve, we still prefer the BA2400. Our customers usually end up selling the the stocker for around a $100.00.

Ron

Dave B.
02-24-2006, 11:55 PM
Well, I called Stiegemeier but once again, spoke with the main guy thats pioneered are the port work they do on Eatons, hes been doing it 30 years he says, he said the stage 4 will bolt on and work very well without a retune,
he did say theres no reason to run at 6000 RPM as its above the power band anyway, said it will peg out about 6000 and not continue to add additional fuel other than the max its already pumping in once it has pegged but it hits the rev limiter before that much more air than fuel gets into it anyway.

Bob then asked me to call his tuner "Jim" who also said with just a 2.76 pulley and no lower that it should be fine just bolting the stage 4 on, I asked about the ba2400 or any other mass air with a wider range, Jim said the moment you put any other mass air on these cars you then have to retune everything to recognize whats going on with the new mass air, said many people that go that road end up with lots of drivability issues.

Now I think I have heard from everyone on this, and what im going to do is be the official ginny pig, Im going to just bolt this thing on and since I have a Wideband I will be able to let you all know whats up,
guess if I get to 5000-5500 RPM and the engine starts cutting out, or I get some bad air/fuel readings, then we will know, but I have a feeling it will bolt on and work just fine, by the way I have this Stiegemeier Eaton right here in front of me,,,,,its uh,,,,,very nice. lots and lots polishing on the inside of where the Plenum bolts on, theres a classy plate with their emblem on the top......im impressed

ronster
02-25-2006, 01:33 AM
Make sure you datalog and keep an eye on your MAF counts. Your AFR will also start to show lean when the MAF pegs. When you start to get up in the 900 count range you are getting really close. 1020 MAF counts is pegged. All I can tell you is based on doing 50 of these, in house on the dyno, our experience tells us 500 HP is about the level where the MAf will peg.

Ron

Dave B.
02-26-2006, 09:37 PM
Ok, tomorrow im going to put this Stiegemeier in the trunk and ruin donw to the local Ford dealer and hope they will put this thing on without telling me to go pound sand, you know theres this one Dyno shop kinda local here that would only install it if they could do a 2 hour tune one the car, that was going to cost $700 for the tune part alone, I think the total was going to be $1175 or something like that, I already have the gaskets, what in the world would cost that much to just do a Supercharger swap out? its not like I was going from an Eaton to a Whipple that would sound a little better, but I dont think it would take what?? 2.5 hours maybe?? to take one of and put basicly the same thing back on,,,,,then 2 hours to tune something Im told takes no tuning??? WOW

blk04cobra1
02-26-2006, 09:52 PM
I know Steggie has told you not to worry about getting a re-tune after the blower install...but take it from all of us on here, at least put it back on the dyno to see where your A/F curve is b/c if you dont, you may not have a motor for very long...also look in the neighborhood of $700 for Ford to install your blower...also, shoot me a PM on the shop who quoted you the dyno tune, im just curious who it was :thumbsup:

scrmngdave
02-26-2006, 10:35 PM
DaveB, Where are you in FLA?

Dave B.
02-26-2006, 10:40 PM
Listen if I did not have a Wideband i would not even consider driving the car down the street without a retune, I sould be able to see whats going on with the Wideband anyway, I have some room, my wideband shows the A/F diving extreamly rich the higher the RPM gets, it will go to 10.0 at 6200 RPM
so theres some room to be had,, as far as putting it on a Dyno?? I would love to, its just that the guy close by here will not call me back, and his employee said he wanted 2 hours as $350 per hour to tune it

Dave B.
02-26-2006, 10:46 PM
Sarasota,Fl

blk04cobra1
02-27-2006, 08:14 AM
Listen if I did not have a Wideband i would not even consider driving the car down the street without a retune, I sould be able to see whats going on with the Wideband anyway, I have some room, my wideband shows the A/F diving extreamly rich the higher the RPM gets, it will go to 10.0 at 6200 RPM
so theres some room to be had,, as far as putting it on a Dyno?? I would love to, its just that the guy close by here will not call me back, and his employee said he wanted 2 hours as $350 per hour to tune it
that's an expensive tune...he should let you on the dyno for $100 or less just to get a reading...good luck with the ported blower :thumbsup:

Dave B.
02-27-2006, 02:12 PM
theres something about the Mechanics, tuners, and race hardware sales people around this area I live, all the Mechanics have this extramly bad holyer than thou attitude, as well as the tuners,,,,,except the tuners think there god them selves,,,,,,,,was the same thing with the Sport bike I had years ago,
this one place I took my bike to for Dyno tuning actualy blew the thing up on the dyno, then told me to come get it, and not to ever bring it back to there shop again, no apology,,,,,,no offer to help with the cost to fix it,,,,,,nada,,

I dont trust these tuners, I dont think it works in all situations, My wideband reads exactly the same radings now after iv been tuned than it did before hand, if the tune only comes into affect at wide open throttle, I dont go out every day and floor the nuts off my engine, plus the computer has provisions to protect it self from lean condition anyway,
hope this helps you all understand why im not racing to get in the dyno tuning line

ronster
02-27-2006, 03:32 PM
We charge $125.00 per hour while tuning. $65.00 for 3 baseline runs if you only want some HP numbers, which gets you 2 runs and a 1/4 mile run on the dyno, which gives you a time slip.

If you think about what has been invested, usually $80-85K for a dyno plus in our case 12K for ALL of the SCT software, it is not an unreasonable rate. To get certification ad another $4000.00 Most shops don't even bother and there are very few SCT certified dealers. Every additional channel you buy to look at EGT's, Boost levels, inlet temps etc. may cost an additional $1200.00. Then ad the ability to look at injector duty cycles, MAf voltage, etc. by the time you are done it ads up.

Now think about the liability the tuner has. There is a supercharger company out there (who's name will be withheld) that sold a "canned tune" with every S/C they sold. So far 8 motors have blown up. They have admitted their mistake, and have purchased new motors for all the customers. I can assure you, NO insurance company will write a policy for that. so..one slip up by a tuner and oops...potentially a very large bill.

If you want ot keep things safe, run it fat. But if you want to eek out every drop of power and feel assured all is still safe, you need the talents of a good tuner and some are very costly.

Just my .02 cents.

Ron

Dave B.
02-27-2006, 07:24 PM
See Ron youv made my point,,these guys around here are charging way way too much for the service they provide, even the Ford Service manager I took it to today who just came back from a Ford tech class on there computer system says it will comp for most every thing, the only time he says you run into a problem is if your running a KB or Whipple and 17 Lbs or more boost to the point the mass air no longer can determine how much airs going in and can no longer add fuel, and thats only on wide open throttle,,

how many of you know that if the computer sees that one side on the engine or the other goes dangerously lean the computer shuts the engine down, and you get a warning on the dash that says either
(BANK 1 LEAN) or (BANK 2 LEAN)

these cars are smarter than we all give credit, yes my Stage 4 will max out the mass air around 6000+ but Im never that high anyway.

mkkrs1
02-27-2006, 10:08 PM
how did you get the supercharger so fast? Did you buy one of theirs and going to send yours in for core, or are they that fast on turn around time.

Dave B.
02-27-2006, 10:10 PM
Ron,,can you imagine what the guy at the dyno shop here would do for 2 hours tuning my car??

just for putting on a Ported Eaton? 2 hours at $350 an hour when I already paid the guy $275 for tuning it before when he raised his rates??

2 hours,,,,,,,,,,,,$350 an hour,,,,,,2 hours,,,,,,,,,FOR WHAT I ASK?????

Dave B.
02-27-2006, 10:39 PM
I paid Stegemeier $1495 total, when I send the Eaton that comes off my car back to them they recredit me $700 I did pay an extra $125 for new bearings,seals, its a core swapout deal, its a real nicely packed peice, very well done, nice port work on the inside, from what Bob there tells me, what makes the stage 4 differant from the stage 3, the 4 has a lot of port work all over the inside of the Eaton, not just opening the ports, but a whole lotta cleaning up all over the insides,

ronster
02-28-2006, 12:36 PM
Dave,

$350.00 per hour does seem on the high side. We get complaints about $125.00 per hour while on the dyno, but we believe we are in line with all the other shops in the area. If you are however the only game in town prices will go up accordingly.

Ron

Dave B.
02-28-2006, 02:23 PM
Ron,,I know there are good people out there tuning these cars, I know your one of them, but theres just something about where I live that makes people go haywire.

I can tell by the way you write on this board that your not a bag of hot air,
this $350 an hour guy not only has a bad attitude, , ,but he also gives the impression that if he cannot rape,,,,,,then he wont dance.

Im just tired of dealing with it all, the Ford dealer my cars at now treats me like gold, they only charging me 1/3 of what these other yahoos where going to charge, ,,,,,2 hours on the dyno my AS&

Big T
02-28-2006, 07:01 PM
Dave. You have the new ported eaton back on your car? Did you run your car on a dyno to get the new numbers in your sig? Are you happy with the results and how is your car running? I'm probably going to follow you on this one.

Dave B.
02-28-2006, 07:24 PM
stage 4 is on the car and if you have been reading my posts you will see i have no reasonable dyno to go to here, and I have a business to run with four employees and do not have time to drive to Tampa just to dyno,,,,but I will let you know how it feels tomorrow

Big T
02-28-2006, 09:57 PM
stage 4 is on the car and if you have been reading my posts you will see i have no reasonable dyno to go to here, and I have a business to run with four employees and do not have time to drive to Tampa just to dyno,,,,but I will let you know how it feels tomorrow
I saw 518hp and 525 tq inyour sig and was wondering if that was before or after the port. I figured that you didn't get it dyno'd. I also have limited resources in New Orleans. Not too many places to do good work. I'm assuming that you haven't got on the pedal hard yet?

Dave B.
02-28-2006, 10:08 PM
I guess I should have waited to put those HP/TQ numbers up there,
Stiegemeier swears I will see a 50HP and about the same Torque increase from the proven Dyno numbers I had before the stage 4,,,,,I just added 50 to the HP number and was a little more conservative on the torque,

but thats where I should be when its all said and done, if you look at what others with a stage 4 have gotten its about the same,,,,give or take,

I cannot wait to get the car back Wednesday (tomorrow) the dealership wanted to replace a set of intercooler O-rings rather than reuse the older ones and had to overnight them,,,cars got 33,000 miles and im one of those people that believes in replacing stuff while their into the engine already rather than waiting for something to spring a leak when they already have the thing apart,

should be an ear to ear grin for sure,,This must be one of the longest running threads ever uh?

Dave B.
03-01-2006, 10:55 PM
Stiegemeier stage 4 installed and operating,

I picked the car up today after the Stiegemeier was installed,,
heres the deal, I know some of you are in Florida but for those of you who are not, please understand this small factoid, this time of year here it can either be 55 degrees in the day time or it can be 80 degrees in the day time, now when I dropped the car off on Monday, I think our high was around 65 to 68 degrees give or take, but it was rather cool and dry the kind of day were you would not even think of using A/C, so on my way there it had great power, now today (Wednesday) it was a good 79 degrees and humid A/C on max needed absolutly, so its a hard day to judge the power differance, it feels strong, but to be honest i think there would be a bigger differance if the old one were back on but with a 55 degree day ,
cold air is the greatest power booster for sure, I just need to wait for a cool night here this weekend, as far as the Air/Fuel goes, if i put it in 3rd gear at slow speed then floor it, I get an average around 11.7 I would say, still going to around 10,2 at high RPM but the traffic did not allow a good test, this SC sounds better than mine, a much louder whine,, but I will let you know soon. ,,,,,,,,2 hours on the Dyno my *%&

mkkrs1
03-01-2006, 11:04 PM
were you satisfied with appearance of the blower, paint wise compared to your old one

Dave B.
03-01-2006, 11:33 PM
Listen the most impressive thing about this deal was the way Stiegemeier packed and packaged it in the box,, it was absolutly first rate, these people cared about how it was going to show up at my house, as far as the paint goes well it looks like a brand new stock Eaton paint job, super clean, a nice Stiegermeier lable on top of it, when I looked inside before we put it on we can tell someone spent a lot of time polishing the inside to a "T"

I have no complaints, it was nice to see theres still a company who understands attention to detail,

blk04cobra1
03-02-2006, 08:24 AM
you say it's going rich up top, well you could cure that with a custom tune and still get more power out of it. Im glad the tune is apparently not all that effected by the port job, just know that there's more power to be had with a custom tune :thumbsup:

Dave B.
03-02-2006, 10:52 PM
Yes i would very much like to get on a Dyno to see what I paid for, but even these $350 guys are too busy to get my in anytime soon,

I would like to ask any of you Stiegemeier stage 4 people that when you first drove your car after having it installed, did you notice a Holy Sh&% differance?? or was it kind of ,,,,EH,,,,thats a little better??

I dont have a Holy Sh&% ,,,,,,,just sort of a EH,,,,,its a little better..

what say yous?????

Linn@Amazon
03-03-2006, 02:14 PM
did you have a custom tune before the ported Eaton?

Dave B.
03-03-2006, 08:59 PM
yes I did have a tune showing 468 RWHP and 485 RWTQ

I finaly went out just a little while ago since the temps are down here in Florida so conditioners were close to the day I dropped it off to get the stage 4 installed, I would now say I notice a holy sh%& hard pull,,

Definatly an improvment, now I think Ill do a lower pulley, but I guess I should take the 2.76 off the top though, so to get about 16 Lbs boost, what top/bottom combination would be best?

blk04cobra1
03-03-2006, 11:05 PM
2.93 and 4lb lower :thumbsup:

Dave B.
03-03-2006, 11:08 PM
is it a big noticable change?? Id think it would be a lower RPM high torque gain,,,??

blk04cobra1
03-04-2006, 08:38 AM
Well, I'd say you're seeing about 11-12 pounds now that you ported your blower, then you'll throw 4-5 more pounds on top...yes, it'll be a difference, but again....i'd strongly suggest a custom tune, then check it with your wideband b/c you'll be gaining 15-20rwhp.

Linn@Amazon
03-04-2006, 11:47 AM
we had a 275 upper with a 4 lb lower on our car with a ported Eaton..you may be looking at fuel system upgrades if you go with a lower with the pulley you have now.Id still get a good retune no matter what you decide to do

remember that having an upper and lower pulley combo is a ratio of the two pulleys when it comes to calculating the boost added.

Linn@Amazon
03-04-2006, 12:08 PM
is it a big noticable change?? Id think it would be a lower RPM high torque gain,,,??

the blower rpm debate rages on...some say that adding a lower pulley gives you more torque and other say blower rpm is blower rpm. since the 275 upper is the smallest pulley you can get on the snout without grinding the snout down you can only see as much boost as your car will make with it..we see 8-10 psi on a stock Eaton so depending on what your Eaton car makes you can see 5-6 added psi with a 275.. it makes sense that to add more boost you will have to add a lower crank pulley. this does 2 things..it gives you more surface for the belt to contact with because adding a crank pulley is bigger..this helps with belt slip which causes boost drop ...the more surface the belt has to contact with the less likely to see belt slip..when you do a combo it is a ratio of the two..an after market boost gauge is a must with these cars if you are adding more boost...your car willmake what is makes with the combos and each car is different...by adding a crank pulley you will see torque come on sooner in the rpm bands and stay longer..is this giving you more torque? only where you need it to move a heavy car down the track or on the street..we have data from hundres and hundres of combo cars because we have specilized in the 03/04 Cobras and have worked exclusively with them since 2002 when they became available for reasearch and development.

Big T
03-04-2006, 07:24 PM
Lynn, what type of power/torque would a 2.75 upper and a 2# or 4# lower put down in your estimation? Also would a 2.75 upper pair better with a 2# or a 4# lower?

Linn@Amazon
03-05-2006, 11:16 AM
this is the latest ported Eaton cars we did ;keep in mind we have a Mustang Dyno and it is about 5% diff than a dyno Jet

this is an AR ported Eaton car<---this porting compares to the Stage 2 Steg port.our porter has been in Afghaistan and we never developed past the Stage 2 since he has been gone... he is back now tho :)

512hp/ 539tq


03 Cobra Redfire Vert (NEW RIDE)
2.8/4lb/AR port/AR cai/o/r x-pipe/dynomax cb/sct 2400 maf/metco 90mm idler
Amazon Racing Tuned with pride!!!



this is a Steg Ported car;

522 whp SAE
537 wtq SAE
STG IV Steig port
LFP heat exchanger
2.8 upper
4lb lower
bbk l/t's
bbk o/r x
slp loudmouth
Johny Lightning coldair
Seimens 60 lbers
sct 2400 maf
NGK tr6's
MM full length subframes
DFX Clutch and 26 spline input shaft
Billet flow irs brace
pro 5.0 shifter
Nitto 315's
KB boosta pump
Tuned by Rick @ Amazon Racing!

Linn@Amazon
03-05-2006, 11:27 AM
there is a knats eyelash diff in the 275/280 pulley so you can use these for comparison..


as long as you have a good tune you can run a 4# lower with either the 280 or 275 safetly and with very nice results


I see that you are from N.O. we are getting a dyno tuning day together for that area if you are interested http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257455