PDA

View Full Version : whipple installed .......horrible dyno numbers


03bloodredsnake
07-15-2006, 10:32 AM
well i finally got the whipple installed and tuned and needless to say im not impressed for all the doe i just shelled out! my numbers were 525 hp and 494 tourqe at 17 pounds.now with that said my air fuel was straight across almost perfect and my tuner basically told me thats all the car has got at that psi.bull **** i think.the reason i bought this whipple over the kenne bell is because supposedly it flows cooler and can make more power than the 2.2.i dont understand everyone else that has this setup is hitting atleast 580 at the worst with the same mods some are over 600 with the same mods.im not even close to that.what could be wrong?it is humid out but i dont think that counts for a 60 to 70 hp loss.im so pissed right now you couldnt even imagine.maybe its the tuner!so i decided to take it to a more reputable place mustang magic in new york. when i called him and told him the story he said that my car should be real close to 600 and the tuner probably didnt know wtf he was doing.i hope hes right.maybe you guys have the answers.it does hold boost so thats fine and we checked all the vacumm lines thats fine so i just dont get it!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Firme
07-15-2006, 12:11 PM
Was the tuner tunning on a Mustang Dyno or a Dynojet?

Mustang Dyno's put load on the car so the number on paper are generally lower.

If I had to guess, you were tuned on a Mustang Dyno because that is around what you would get on the Mustang Dyno. All the numbers you see online for these cars are on Dynojets because A: they are more common and B: people like posting higher numbers.

For tunning though, Mustang dyno's are better because they put the car under load which is more "real world" than free spinning dynojet.

Dynojet came out with a model that puts load on the rollers now. Also, you can ask your tunner to set the Mustang dyno to no load if you want a dynopull with SAE numbers you can compare everyone else.

I hope this is the case. :thumbsup:

03bloodredsnake
07-15-2006, 12:36 PM
Was the tuner tunning on a Mustang Dyno or a Dynojet?

Mustang Dyno's put load on the car so the number on paper are generally lower.

If I had to guess, you were tuned on a Mustang Dyno because that is around what you would get on the Mustang Dyno. All the numbers you see online for these cars are on Dynojets because A: they are more common and B: people like posting higher numbers.

For tunning though, Mustang dyno's are better because they put the car under load which is more "real world" than free spinning dynojet.

Dynojet came out with a model that puts load on the rollers now. Also, you can ask your tunner to set the Mustang dyno to no load if you want a dynopull with SAE numbers you can compare everyone else.

I hope this is the case. :thumbsup:nope dynojet and they were std numbers also

03bloodredsnake
07-15-2006, 12:38 PM
pretty pitiful huh?:(

Firme
07-15-2006, 01:02 PM
nope dynojet and they were std numbers also

DOH!! sorry to hear, was hoping your dilema would be easy as that.

why not SAE corrected?

in certain weather\climate, std numbers will show lower than SAE corrected from my experience. (but then again, alot of times std is actually a higher number)

03bloodredsnake
07-15-2006, 03:45 PM
i give up anyone wanna buy it

Eric_red94
07-15-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm sure you've checked all your bases, but an inlet tract restriction could cut the horsepower short. Don't give up, go to another tuner, dyno. I drive 1.5hr to Cincy to get to a decent tuner, dyno.

03slidewayzSVT
07-15-2006, 08:26 PM
Ask your tuner how many degree of timing he added???Remember just because a person owns a dyno doesn't mean they can tune a car!!!!!Put the dyno graph on to here...We have seen with all supporting mods of course @ 17psi car made 657RWHP and 630RWTQ .......We have seen 60 to 70 RWHP with just a few degrees of timing removed......I recommend Dan Desio @ Pro-Dyno..... Check out www.PRO-DYNO.com (http://www.pro-dyno.com/) go to the gallery and look for Insane 650+ whipple 03 red Cobra and you can see it's not BS....:thumbsup: 10.7 @ 133 with a whole crap load of wheel spin!!!!

RR03Cobra
07-16-2006, 12:14 PM
Definitely sounds like you got a bogus tune!! There is more to tuning than just keeping a safe air/fuel ratio! Without seeing your datalog, it's hard to tell what your other parameters were set at. You can also give Rick@ Amazon Tuning Solutions a call for more info. (864) 332-0955 He's been tuning these cars for many years and is very knowledgeable about Whipple tuning! Good Luck:thumbsup:

BadMoFo
07-16-2006, 01:21 PM
Definitely sounds like you got a bogus tune!! There is more to tuning than just keeping a safe air/fuel ratio! Without seeing your datalog, it's hard to tell what your other parameters were set at. You can also give Rick@ Amazon Tuning Solutions a call for more info. (864) 332-0955 He's been tuning these cars for many years and is very knowledgeable about Whipple tuning! Good Luck:thumbsup:


:thumbsup: one of the best in the Nation!

InfamousSVT
07-16-2006, 09:20 PM
What kind of tuning device was used? SCT, Diablo, etc...
What mods do you have on the car?
How long has this tuner you used been tuning these cars and are they a well known tuner?

Many different things can account for the low hp numbers, how does the car feel on the street or track? Numbers really don't mean jack sh*t honestly, though it is nice to see that you have 600 + rwhp or whatnot, but someone that can't drive a car with the fastest car in the world will lose.

Also, if the a/f is flat across the boards then you're not pegging the meter or running out of fuel so you're safe, that's a good thing.

It just maybe the way the dyno is set-up, each dyno is going to read differently then another, just like each car will respond differently to certain mods or tunes then others.

With a list of mods and the *total* timing that the car has in it, will be able to tell more about what kind of numbers you should be around.

It also never hurts to call another tuner to get a second opinion about it also.

I use Rick at ATS and on a Mustang Dyno my car made 557rwhp on 13psi with a Whipple and the basic mod list, just to give you an idea of where you should be. Running 17psi on a Dyno Jet you should be well over 600rwhp with a good tune. :thumbsup:

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

TRMN8TR
07-16-2006, 11:54 PM
well i finally got the whipple installed and tuned and needless to say im not impressed for all the doe i just shelled out! my numbers were 525 hp and 494 tourqe at 17 pounds.now with that said my air fuel was straight across almost perfect and my tuner basically told me thats all the car has got at that psi.bull **** i think.the reason i bought this whipple over the kenne bell is because supposedly it flows cooler and can make more power than the 2.2.i dont understand everyone else that has this setup is hitting atleast 580 at the worst with the same mods some are over 600 with the same mods.im not even close to that.what could be wrong?it is humid out but i dont think that counts for a 60 to 70 hp loss.im so pissed right now you couldnt even imagine.maybe its the tuner!so i decided to take it to a more reputable place mustang magic in new york. when i called him and told him the story he said that my car should be real close to 600 and the tuner probably didnt know wtf he was doing.i hope hes right.maybe you guys have the answers.it does hold boost so thats fine and we checked all the vacumm lines thats fine so i just dont get it!:mad: :mad: :mad:
I'm assuming that you added ALL the supporting mods? Fuel injectors, MAF, BAP, plugs, etc...........
As asked above, who is the tuner? You should be seeing upwards of 585RWHP with the proper setup.

03bloodredsnake
07-17-2006, 08:58 AM
ive got all of that 60lbs, focus pumps, 2400 mass air, tr 6's, all the cooling mods catback xpipe, jlt.well ive got an appointment with mustang magic in new york next week so well have to see if it is the tuner.when i was there tuning my car they have a cobra of there own that supossedly makes 640 to the wheels at 25 psi with the kenne bell.the guy who runs the place was acting as if my expectations of what the car should have was to much.he has the old kennebell and has had lots of problems with it.he also then tells me that i cant run pump gas at 17 psi.......i just laughed and thought to myself what a joker.then he tells me look my car has over 200 passes on the dyno to get it there..... yours doesnt.and im like what the f are you talking about if you knew how to tune... it would onley need a couple of passes and to go out onto the street also.maybe im wrong i dont know but i dropped alot of cash just to be at 525 hp if i wanted that i should have just ported the blower.oh yeah one more thing the guy acted like the new whipple was inferior to the 2.2 kennebell and would not produce such high numbers.;)

03bloodredsnake
07-17-2006, 09:02 AM
ive been using the place for a while and have had no problems up to this point.my car always ran very strong when racing other cobras that were tuned by jdm and the likes it always won.i dont get it?but then again the place that i go to is not a household name and they do it on the side of there other buisness so maybe thats the problem. has anyone ever heard of mustng magic? i know ive seen tham a couple of times in mmff.:thumbsup:

03bloodredsnake
07-17-2006, 09:06 AM
wwwwwwwwwwwwtttttttttttttttttttttfffffffffffffffffffffffffff:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: !im fine i really am guys dont worry about me!

InfamousSVT
07-17-2006, 09:39 AM
I've heard of Mustang Magic, but I can't tell you anything from them personally.

The guy you used obviously doesn't know a damn thing about tuning if he doesn't think you can run pump gas on 17psi. You can run as much boost as you want to and still use pump gas as long on the tune is made for that specific set-up. It seems that you've got all the supporting mods needed, so it looks as if it's the tune.
Also on a side note, if he could tune a car and made over 200 passes on the dyno to get 640rwhp on his car then he wasted his time. Running 25psi he should be way up there with hp, but that's also saying that he has the supporting mods for it too.

A tune is the most important thing for your car and it's life, so I would HIGHLY recommend that you don't use a guy that tunes on the side unless you just have the extra money to fix his screw ups, in my opinion.

Give a reputable tuner a call and talk with them. Rick at Amazon is a great guy to speak with and can give you advise even if you don't use him to tune the car, ATS is always willing to help others. :thumbsup:

I hope you get everything worked out so that you are happy with the car and it last you a long time.:D

TRMN8TR
07-17-2006, 04:00 PM
I've heard of Mustang Magic, but I can't tell you anything from them personally.

The guy you used obviously doesn't know a damn thing about tuning if he doesn't think you can run pump gas on 17psi. You can run as much boost as you want to and still use pump gas as long on the tune is made for that specific set-up. It seems that you've got all the supporting mods needed, so it looks as if it's the tune.
Also on a side note, if he could tune a car and made over 200 passes on the dyno to get 640rwhp on his car then he wasted his time. Running 25psi he should be way up there with hp, but that's also saying that he has the supporting mods for it too.

A tune is the most important thing for your car and it's life, so I would HIGHLY recommend that you don't use a guy that tunes on the side unless you just have the extra money to fix his screw ups, in my opinion.

Give a reputable tuner a call and talk with them. Rick at Amazon is a great guy to speak with and can give you advise even if you don't use him to tune the car, ATS is always willing to help others. :thumbsup:

I hope you get everything worked out so that you are happy with the car and it last you a long time.:D
x100 the tune IS everything for sure. Call Rick @ Amazon and they will take care of you for sure. My buddy's KB'd cobra with your same mods is making 650 at the tires with a 19lb pulley.


Who tuned your car???????

Don't get pissed or give up too soon.

Ram77mus
07-17-2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah you are definately lacking some power. I've heard good things about Joe over at Mustang Magic. They had a 2003 that made some good power. Good Luck with it!:thumbsup:

spincobra03
07-18-2006, 12:18 AM
I recommend the guys at pro dyno, YOU WONT FIND NICER or SMARTER. They will get it right. Hope it works out for you.

03slidewayzSVT
07-18-2006, 07:32 AM
I recommend the guys at pro dyno, YOU WONT FIND NICER or SMARTER. They will get it right. Hope it works out for you.

+1
they had a whipple make 650 rwhp on 17lb....:thumbsup:

ausie
07-18-2006, 07:35 AM
Sorry to hear things went in the wrong direction. I was recommended to use Crazy Horse Racing in NJ but have not bothered to do any mods since I would rather avoid problems like the one's you have run into. It gets harder when there are no local tuners around or one's that specialize in the 03/04 Cobra's. The only two that come to mind are not local but Rick at Amazon Racing or Rob at prodyno may be alternatives if things do not proceed as expected.

mystic04
07-18-2006, 02:54 PM
Jon lund he has tuned many whippled cobras http://lundracing.com/ lives in media pa not very far from you only about 90 minute drive just stay out of the boost.he tunes your car while you drive on his laptop also has sensore for a/f you need to know any more go to http://www.svtperformance.com/
taste of home section then go to MACA and drop a post on jon lund you will get many replies on how good he is.

03bloodredsnake
07-18-2006, 09:02 PM
my clutch is slipping maybe that could be part of the problem huh

03slidewayzSVT
07-19-2006, 02:34 AM
my clutch is slipping maybe that could be part of the problem huh

ya that could be it right there!!!! is it stock or what???? if you could put your graph on the screen....

03bloodredsnake
07-19-2006, 12:16 PM
sorry i dont know how to put it up here dont you need a scanner for that.and yes the clutch is stock!

03bloodredsnake
07-19-2006, 03:17 PM
well i called laurel mountain mustang and ordered a ram clutch a new steel flywheel, some hardened throwout bearings and a 26 spline input shaft set me back 700 or so $.hopefully not money down the drain but i guess any money spent on a car is in reality ,money down the drain, oh well got to have something motivating me to keep working:thumbsup:

Linn@Amazon
07-20-2006, 06:48 PM
you will not go wrong with MM...Joe is an old friend of ours and a great guy...

if you want Rick to work with you via email just give us a call 864 332 0955
he has been tuning 03 cobras almost exclusively since they were on the market in 2002..he has tuned many many Whippled 03/04 Cobras

Big T
07-20-2006, 07:13 PM
sorry i dont know how to put it up here dont you need a scanner for that.and yes the clutch is stock!
Besides the numbers being crappy, how does your car feel driving it? I may have missed one of your posts but does your car feel alot faster than what you had before? Do you know anyone else that you could ride with with similar mods to see if your car is different? Mabye the dyno was calibrated wrong or something.

blk04cobra1
07-21-2006, 10:58 AM
well i called laurel mountain mustang and ordered a ram clutch a new steel flywheel, some hardened throwout bearings and a 26 spline input shaft set me back 700 or so $.hopefully not money down the drain but i guess any money spent on a car is in reality ,money down the drain, oh well got to have something motivating me to keep working:thumbsup:
that's a good setup you got coming, should yield some good results...good luck :thumbsup:

Eric_red94
07-21-2006, 12:06 PM
If you think money spent on you car is "money down the drain", then maybe you should sell it, there is a hot market for 03-04 cobras. Once the thrill is gone, why bother.

03bloodredsnake
07-21-2006, 05:05 PM
If you think money spent on you car is "money down the drain", then maybe you should sell it, there is a hot market for 03-04 cobras. Once the thrill is gone, why bother.nah i wont sell it!its just alot of money to be spending thats all i love my car and all mustangs i dont know what id do without them

03bloodredsnake
07-21-2006, 05:06 PM
you will not go wrong with MM...Joe is an old friend of ours and a great guy...

if you want Rick to work with you via email just give us a call 864 332 0955
he has been tuning 03 cobras almost exclusively since they were on the market in 2002..he has tuned many many Whippled 03/04 Cobrasthanks i heard alot of good things about you guys also and will keep you in mind i wish you were closer but id make the drive anyhow for the proper tune thanks for your help

03bloodredsnake
07-21-2006, 05:07 PM
Besides the numbers being crappy, how does your car feel driving it? I may have missed one of your posts but does your car feel alot faster than what you had before? Do you know anyone else that you could ride with with similar mods to see if your car is different? Mabye the dyno was calibrated wrong or something.it feels strong but not 600 hp strong just a little better than what it was ,thats about it.

InfamousSVT
07-21-2006, 05:09 PM
it feels strong but not 600 hp strong just a little better than what it was ,thats about it.
Don't get too discouraged, it'll work out :thumbsup:

03bloodredsnake
07-21-2006, 05:13 PM
that's a good setup you got coming, should yield some good results...good luck :thumbsup:yeah the guy at laurel mountain mustang has a ported eaton and runs mid tens with this setup on his tranny.mustang magic though told me to go with a spec and just keep the aluminum one.to late thougn i already got the parts so oh well.

blk04cobra1
07-21-2006, 05:17 PM
yeah the guy at laurel mountain mustang has a ported eaton and runs mid tens with this setup on his tranny.mustang magic though told me to go with a spec and just keep the aluminum one.to late thougn i already got the parts so oh well.
it's all about personal preference...i have a RAM HD in mine now and it saw 800+rwhp with ease...it does chatter, but once you get it figured out it's all butter :thumbsup: ...like Jason said, dont get discouraged...once it's running great, all those bad memories fade away

Linn@Amazon
07-21-2006, 07:42 PM
thanks i heard alot of good things about you guys also and will keep you in mind i wish you were closer but id make the drive anyhow for the proper tune thanks for your help

we are trying to put together a tuning day in MD for sometime this summer..how close are you to Baltimore? that might be an option for you if coming to SC is not something you can arrange..

I will keep you posted aboub the tuning day

03slidewayzSVT
07-21-2006, 11:59 PM
Your best bit is going to see Joe @ Mustang Magic.... If your not happy with your tune now!! You are not going to like a mail order tune!!....Doing it live on a dyno with a tune specific to your car is the best way to go....Joe is a older man that has been tuning for many years......

TL04SVT
07-22-2006, 05:39 AM
Your best bit is going to see Joe @ Mustang Magic.... If your not happy with your tune now!! You are not going to like a mail order tune!!....Doing it live on a dyno with a tune specific to your car is the best way to go....Joe is a older man that has been tuning for many years......

Good luck with the car 03blood, just be patient!

03bloodredsnake
07-22-2006, 11:25 AM
we are trying to put together a tuning day in MD for sometime this summer..how close are you to Baltimore? that might be an option for you if coming to SC is not something you can arrange..

I will keep you posted aboub the tuning dayonley 3 hours away

03bloodredsnake
07-22-2006, 11:27 AM
it's all about personal preference...i have a RAM HD in mine now and it saw 800+rwhp with ease...it does chatter, but once you get it figured out it's all butter :thumbsup: ...like Jason said, dont get discouraged...once it's running great, all those bad memories fade awayhow bad does it chatter and is it really annoying and embarrising!

blk04cobra1
07-22-2006, 11:53 AM
how bad does it chatter and is it really annoying and embarrising!
no, you just have to figure out the release point...if you drive yours a lot, it wont take long

Linn@Amazon
07-22-2006, 12:15 PM
onley 3 hours away

I'll let you know as soon as the plans are final...

TL04SVT
07-22-2006, 05:24 PM
onley 3 hours away
3 hours is well worth the time for your car, let us know the results you get and what the problem was when you figure it out. :thumbsup:

03bloodredsnake
07-23-2006, 10:00 AM
3 hours is well worth the time for your car, let us know the results you get and what the problem was when you figure it out. :thumbsup:yeah i definatly will im going to get it tuned after the clutch install so i'll keep you guys posted:thumbsup:

TL04SVT
07-24-2006, 05:31 AM
Can't wait to find out the results, most important I hope you begin to enjoy the car more after you get everything worked out. :thumbsup:

fr03cobra
07-26-2006, 01:08 AM
I dynoed today at 540 on a mustang dyno. With the stock clutch. That won't last long.lol :rolleyes:

mrpork
08-08-2006, 01:09 PM
i need to know the best one to get for an 04 cobra and what mod upgrades i have to do. the cost can anyone tell me the cost of the best one for my car

blk04cobra1
08-08-2006, 05:28 PM
Whipple W140ax is the one for our cars. I personally would opt for the new 2.6 or 2.8 Kenne Bell. Price will range from $2900-$3300 for the non-polished versions. Add $300-$500 for the polished versions. Normal upgrades are clutch, injectors, fuel pumps/BAP, Mafia/sct 2400 big mass air....but the upgrades are endless :thumbsup:

InfamousSVT
08-09-2006, 02:34 AM
Whipple W140ax is the one for our cars. I personally would opt for the new 2.6 or 2.8 Kenne Bell. Price will range from $2900-$3300 for the non-polished versions. Add $300-$500 for the polished versions. Normal upgrades are clutch, injectors, fuel pumps/BAP, Mafia/sct 2400 big mass air....but the upgrades are endless :thumbsup:
What he said..........I say Whipple, had a Kenne Bell....twice :eek:

mrpork
08-09-2006, 09:17 AM
thanx

BadAss03Cobra
09-03-2006, 11:51 PM
I made 552 at the wheels on a dynojet with the new whipple at 15 psi and that is with the stock fuel system. I have the GT pumps, FPDM, and 60# injectors to install now so hoping to get up to 600 after that and a 3.00" pully

03bloodredsnake
09-04-2006, 02:08 PM
yeah i went back to try again but still not satisfied i got 568 hp on a dyno jet:( i'll keep trying maybe when the eathers better.like i said im going to take it to mustang magic near the end of fall or whenever i save the doe for it:thumbsup:

autojunkie88
09-13-2006, 05:55 PM
Hey Im right outside Baltimore.. And am very interested in the tuning day because Im abotu to purchase one. Any more info on around where and when it could be held?

jeffS.
09-29-2006, 02:12 PM
your trap speed of 122 indicates pretty respectable hp to me. what were your track #'s previous to the whipple? if your running in the mid 11's on pump gas I'm giving you thumbs up all the way. to me dyno #'s dont say anything other than comparative testing. I,ve read articles were shops can simply change the #s to your liking. I've also seen adds claiming 575hp from their performance pack. and when A magazine tested the parts they come up with 460's. I've seen ported ,pulleyed, and sprayed terminators not eclipse 550. My point is not to disreguard the dyno#'s alltogether, but use them for testing and optimizing tunes only. I've watched one race where a newer supercharged vette claiming seven hundred plus hp, get his but handed to him by a twin turboed 04 cobra making 640 or maybe 660HP. Knowing the cobra has to outweigh the vette by at least 400lbs, also going from a 40 mph roll ,so traction wasn't an issue either, the math just dosn't add up to me. as long as the guy or gal in the other lane stays behind you when it counts, thats when your money is well spent! One more tidbit before I leave. I test bolt ons on my 04 cobra with a G-tech pro, and when it says I'm putting out 310horse and 309 torque after long tube headers, offroad X-pipe,2.76 blower pulley, C.A.I., acufab T.B etc. and feeling the seat of the pants difference from hell, I look at it like this. stock 256hp and 259 torque, I know I've gained over 50 horse for my investment on bolt ons. and those pathetic #'s from my G-tech pro didn't stop me from putting up a very good race against an 06 viper with over 500 horse from the factory. Dont forget dyno#'s would make a good promotion for a shop or for pushing parts. when there's money to be had, BEWARE. If someone tells me they have 600 or 800 horse it doesn't tell me anything other than they,d like to keep me scared from a race, too bad so sad. I'll bet that guy in the vette I mentioned earlier keeps his #'s under his hat or on a notepad where they belong instead of the potential humiliation that could come to haunt him. However, I wouldn't race you for money after showing me a timeslip in the mid 11's. I'll bet your car rocks with that whipple!