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View Full Version : cobra comparsion to 05-06-07 stang


arsnowman
04-18-2007, 10:54 AM
What if anything can you do (aftermarket) to strengthen the internals of the 05-06-07 stang and is it practical?

I read and article in last months 5.0 mag April addition page 74, they had taken and 06 stang and put a new magnacharger made by Eaton, on it and flashed the computer the meet the changes. They claim that by doing this, they were able to take the stock powerbase from 283rwhp and 296 torque to 409rwhp and 401 torque.

Question: How are the internals of this going to hold up long tern and what other changes would have to be made to make the 05-06-07 stang comparable to the 03-04 cobra. Or is this even possible?

Please share your thoughts on this.

Sonic03inSC
04-18-2007, 05:03 PM
What if anything can you do (aftermarket) to strengthen the internals of the 05-06-07 stang and is it practical?

I read and article in last months 5.0 mag April addition page 74, they had taken and 06 stang and put a new magnacharger made by Eaton, on it and flashed the computer the meet the changes. They claim that by doing this, they were able to take the stock powerbase from 283rwhp and 296 torque to 409rwhp and 401 torque.

Question: How are the internals of this going to hold up long tern and what other changes would have to be made to make the 05-06-07 stang comparable to the 03-04 cobra. Or is this even possible?

Please share your thoughts on this.
Forged internals is the only way for longevity.

ausie
04-19-2007, 07:07 AM
With the proper tune and correct grade of gasoline, depending on existing compression ratio, 6psi of boost should be safe. I am not quite sure what type of internals the 05-07 mustangs use. Also if the engine has greater than 10:1 compression or higher, a drop in boost pressure will be necessary unless the engine has some good quality forged pistons and connecting rods. As far as longevity, forged internals would be the smart approach for reliability. The magnacharger (which is the aftermarket Eaton) is still a roots blower. The alternative would be the saleen version based off of the whipple twin screw but has a different intake plenum that sits on top of the compressor.

Exactly what Sonic said, forged internals is the way to go if you want reliability and capacity comparable to the Terminator. The terminator engine can exceed 800Hp with the proper tune and still using the engine in stock form with the exception of the supercharger. The cam profile of the terminator motors was optimised for forced induction as well. To do the same with the 05-07 3v motor, you can rebuild the engine with forged internals and proper cam for forced induction. If the engine buildup and tune are done right, you should have no problems in the long run as far as the engine is concerned.

arsnowman
04-19-2007, 03:36 PM
Thanks for your reply and information. If I were to replace the rods and pistons with forged equipment, this would give an engine that would be somewhat of the same category as the 03-04 cobra, right, (as far as strength)?

What would be the proper cams to replace the factory cams with?

Also would the motor be strong enough to with stand putting a Kenne Bell on it?

Thanks

spincobra03
04-20-2007, 06:10 PM
Im not so sure just changing the rods and pistons makes the 05-07 as strong as a cobra but maybe im wrong. Not sure what style block it has and what it can handle. Im sure torry could answer that.

ausie
04-21-2007, 08:28 AM
I would have to agree with spincobra03 in that the 4.6L engine of the new mustang is not the same beast as the 03/04 terminators. Having the intent of using forced induction it would be wise to replace the internals with forged components especially if the stock mill uses powdered metal connecting rods and hyperetic pistons. Strenght in terms of power output is possible, but strenght in terms of endurance may be a different story. No engine is indestructable but one may believe differently after seeing what some have done to their terminators so the engine of the terminator is precieved to be indestructable. I woud not doupt that one could build up the late model mustang mill to have a higher power output than a stock 03/04 terminator engine. I have no anser to wether or not the production mill can endure the increase or how much can be done to the engine before it becomes unreliable. There are other components that are not common between the SVT engines and the production engines such as the block casting and crankshaft.

puzzle13
04-21-2007, 11:21 AM
There was an article in one of the Mustang magazines a year or so ago dedicated the this actual question of how much power you could get out of the new engines. Due to the connecting rods and the construction of the pistons, (developed almost completely for better gas mileage), that if you pushed the engines much over 430 - 450 horsepower that you were asking for failure. The pistons just were not made to handle the abuse! The rods tend to crack and so do the pistons. The terminator engine was overbuilt just for the supercharger! It has been published that these engines can handle up to 1000 horsepower before failure. In other words ... the two engines are in two completely different worlds. Locally I met someone with a 06 that was supercharged and he was kicking out 435 rwhp and wanted more, but his mechanic refused. He said that any more was just asking for engine failure and that the horsepower he was pushing now would destroy the engine if he was too hard on it.

blk04cobra1
04-21-2007, 03:42 PM
Im not so sure just changing the rods and pistons makes the 05-07 as strong as a cobra but maybe im wrong. Not sure what style block it has and what it can handle. Im sure torry could answer that.
The weak link on the 05+ seem to be the rods...so theoretically speaking if you change out the rods/pistons you can run about what a cobra can push...to my knowledge the 05+ blocks can handle upwards of 800+rwhp, but not many have gotten that far just yet...we hope to push the envelope soon on a few, so we'll be sure to let you guys know :thumbsup:

We currently have a Vortech'd 05GT running 507rwhp and it has about 10k miles on this setup...this too with only 9lbs of boost...we're going to up the boost to 12lbs soon when he has the money to build motor (after we test the stocker). Puzzle was right, most were having trouble over 430rwhp, but some have had engine failure above this mark.

ausie
04-22-2007, 11:45 AM
Hopefully Ford did not use a cast nodular iron crank (typical for production engines, especially if mated to an automatic trans) which has a limit of around 450hp. More than likely the crank is 5140 forged steel alloy which is much stronger and has a higer load capacity (may be close to 800hp). The better crank would be made from forged 4130 or 4340 steel alloy which has a capacity of 1000hp or more. The stock Cobra crankshaft is the forged 4340 steel alloy.

arsnowman
04-23-2007, 03:09 PM
Guys, thanks for the information. I'm new at the mustangs. I was a supra owner and fan for years and could tell you a lot about the 1JZ and 2JZ engines, but was just not very knowledgeable with the mustangs and I appreciate the information thus far.

If I were to get a 05, 06 or 07 and replace the pistons, rods, crank, would this be safe enough to put some type of a blower on it so I would have a 500rwhp daily driver and wouldn't have to worry about blowing it up???:thumbsup:

ausie
04-24-2007, 06:43 AM
From what I have read about the 05+ (which is not much), I believe that the standard transmission should have the forged steel crank (not the Cobra crank) so you may not need to replace it. I would talk it over with an engine builder who specializes in mustang engines. Considering the investment and cost of rebuilding the engine of a stock 05-07 mustang gt, why not consider a shelby gt500? At least that way you will have a 3 year warranty on the engine.

arsnowman
04-24-2007, 11:01 AM
I can pick up an 05 stang for around 19-23K. And with the rebuild of around 10K total including several blowers I have found thats still almost 20K less to what the GT500 cost. Plus the % I would be paying.

blk04cobra1
04-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Guys, thanks for the information. I'm new at the mustangs. I was a supra owner and fan for years and could tell you a lot about the 1JZ and 2JZ engines, but was just not very knowledgeable with the mustangs and I appreciate the information thus far.

If I were to get a 05, 06 or 07 and replace the pistons, rods, crank, would this be safe enough to put some type of a blower on it so I would have a 500rwhp daily driver and wouldn't have to worry about blowing it up???:thumbsup:
sure, you can put one on right now and not really have to worry too much about it so long as you have a safe tune...Also, dont worry about the crank, unless you want to change it out...if you're going to take the motor apart, might as well also put in a set of cams as well :thumbsup:

I agree with you about the GT500, but if you have to have the "limited" feel, then the GT500 is the way to go...I myself would find it hard to pay $15k+ over MSRP for it.