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View Full Version : Cylinder Heads -New vs. Ported


mfelice03
11-03-2007, 01:18 PM
Anyone bought new cyclinder heads or have had them ported instead? Has anyone had them ported first and then decide to have them replaced with new? Lots of brands out there, what do you recommend? Anyone have the new TFS CNC Ported heads?

If you've ported or bought new, what kind of HP gains are you seeing?

GodStang
11-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Anyone bought new cyclinder heads or have had them ported instead? Has anyone had them ported first and then decide to have them replaced with new? Lots of brands out there, what do you recommend? Anyone have the new TFS CNC Ported heads?

If you've ported or bought new, what kind of HP gains are you seeing?
There are no aftermarket heads for 03-04 Cobras other than the FR500 which are not a good choice for boosted applications.

03whitecobra
11-03-2007, 08:06 PM
I bought FR500 heads new and had them ported and over sized valves. There are not alot of heads out there, just new FRPP Cobra heads and FR500 heads. FR500 heads can flow better than Cobra heads when ported correctly. Some say that the FR500 are no good for S/C application. Must be something inside in the water ways. I would like to know why Ford pushed the FR500 heads in their snakecharmer article(they put the FR500 heads on their 03 Cobra) if they are not good for boost applications. As far as numbers I did alot of mods at the same time so I don't know exactly the gains from just the ported heads. I do have flow numbers.

GodStang
11-03-2007, 10:00 PM
I bought FR500 heads new and had them ported and over sized valves. There are not alot of heads out there, just new FRPP Cobra heads and FR500 heads. FR500 heads can flow better than Cobra heads when ported correctly. Some say that the FR500 are no good for S/C application. Must be something inside in the water ways. I would like to know why Ford pushed the FR500 heads in their snakecharmer article(they put the FR500 heads on their 03 Cobra) if they are not good for boost applications. As far as numbers I did alot of mods at the same time so I don't know exactly the gains from just the ported heads. I do have flow numbers.
Please do not take this as an insult as the FR500 heads are very good for NA setups but very very bad for blown applications. The FR500 head does not have a water line like the 03-04 has which causes added heat which is bad. The reason Ford pushed the FR500 heads was for the soul fact that Magizanes are made to sell products. They will push who ever gives them money. Look at Nazman who had one of the baddest NA cars built and he was running fully ported FR500s. He just took the same engine and swapped to TTs. What did he do. He switched to fully ported 03-04 Cobra heads because of the cooling. The 03-04 flow better stock than the FR500 for TS setups. The FR500s are more expensive. If you Port the FR500s you can port the 03-04s to flow just as much if not better.


There is a reason so very very few people run FR500 heads on a PDB setup. That are not good heads for this application. Again I am not trying to bash your decision just trying to get all the facts out there.

Now of course if you have money you can always get GT500 heads and have them P&P and then get a custom intake for them to fit. They flow levels above the FR500 and 03-04 Cobra.

JROC
11-04-2007, 03:40 AM
I recommend you call here and talk to Dave.
http://www.badassfast.com/


With their ported heads and custom ground comp cams they have built a 600whp Cobra and a 735whp Whippled Cobra, both with a http://www.pro-dyno.net/ tune on pump gas.

03whitecobra
11-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Please do not take this as an insult as the FR500 heads are very good for NA setups but very very bad for blown applications. The FR500 head does not have a water line like the 03-04 has which causes added heat which is bad. The reason Ford pushed the FR500 heads was for the soul fact that Magizanes are made to sell products. They will push who ever gives them money. Look at Nazman who had one of the baddest NA cars built and he was running fully ported FR500s. He just took the same engine and swapped to TTs. What did he do. He switched to fully ported 03-04 Cobra heads because of the cooling. The 03-04 flow better stock than the FR500 for TS setups. The FR500s are more expensive. If you Port the FR500s you can port the 03-04s to flow just as much if not better.


There is a reason so very very few people run FR500 heads on a PDB setup. That are not good heads for this application. Again I am not trying to bash your decision just trying to get all the facts out there.

Now of course if you have money you can always get GT500 heads and have them P&P and then get a custom intake for them to fit. They flow levels above the FR500 and 03-04 Cobra.
No offence taken, just would like to get the facts too. This is what I have, the FR500 heads are used in the Grand Am races on the Ford Mustangs. I think they pound them pretty hard so if there is a heat issue why would they continue to use them. Ported FR500 heads will always flow better (if correctly ported) than ported 03/04 Cobra heads. Have you ever seen or heard of ported 03/04 Cobra heads flowing more than 330in/235ex CFM? Yes, the FR500 heads cost more than the 03/04 Cobra heads so if you are on a budget you probably want the Cobra heads.
I called Ford Racing Tech Support and spoke to Steve, he said that he does not know what you are talking about he also added that the FR500 heads are just fine for S/C applications like the 03/04 Cobras.

If you get a chance contact Greg @ Sutton High Performance and ask how his FR500 heads are doing.

When I was doing my build up the GT500 heads were not available.

GodStang
11-07-2007, 06:38 PM
Typical Stage III P&P on a 03/04 head runs 330/275 CFM. Which is same on Intake side but a good bit more than your posted 235 on the exhaust side which is what helps the positive displacement blowers. Also the Grand AM Mustang (FR500C) uses Fort GT heads not FR500 heads. Hence why it is doing so well.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/featuredvehicles/m5lp_0603w_ford_racing_fr500c/index.html

I am by no means saying the FR500 heads are bad. Again they are great heads but when they are almost $1K more they are just not worth it over heads that flow the same if not better on a FI car. I am glad Sutton is having great luck with their FR500s heads but that is not the question here.

Also FR500 heads are fine for boosted applications (as ford said) but they are not the best and they were not designed to be the best for forced induction.



No offence taken, just would like to get the facts too. This is what I have, the FR500 heads are used in the Grand Am races on the Ford Mustangs. I think they pound them pretty hard so if there is a heat issue why would they continue to use them. Ported FR500 heads will always flow better (if correctly ported) than ported 03/04 Cobra heads. Have you ever seen or heard of ported 03/04 Cobra heads flowing more than 330in/235ex CFM? Yes, the FR500 heads cost more than the 03/04 Cobra heads so if you are on a budget you probably want the Cobra heads.
I called Ford Racing Tech Support and spoke to Steve, he said that he does not know what you are talking about he also added that the FR500 heads are just fine for S/C applications like the 03/04 Cobras.

If you get a chance contact Greg @ Sutton High Performance and ask how his FR500 heads are doing.

When I was doing my build up the GT500 heads were not available.

03whitecobra
11-10-2007, 06:57 PM
Typical Stage III P&P on a 03/04 head runs 330/275 CFM. Which is same on Intake side but a good bit more than your posted 235 on the exhaust side which is what helps the positive displacement blowers. Also the Grand AM Mustang (FR500C) uses Fort GT heads not FR500 heads. Hence why it is doing so well.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/featuredvehicles/m5lp_0603w_ford_racing_fr500c/index.html

I am by no means saying the FR500 heads are bad. Again they are great heads but when they are almost $1K more they are just not worth it over heads that flow the same if not better on a FI car. I am glad Sutton is having great luck with their FR500s heads but that is not the question here.

Also FR500 heads are fine for boosted applications (as ford said) but they are not the best and they were not designed to be the best for forced induction.
This is some very good info. After reading the article I want to call Ford Racing back and ask them what he was talking about but I’ll leave it alone.
In the mean time here are some things I found out.
Jerry, Sutton High Performance cofounder and crew chief for their Renegade Mustang stated:
“We run the FR 500 heads on our NMRA Renegade car. They will out flow a 03-04 Cobra head. (both ported) They do have a dry exhaust port. This means they don't have cooling passages around the exhaust port. We had big problems keeping exhaust seats in our cylinder heads in 2006. For 2007 we went to beryllium copper seats that were .300 thick. After that the cylinder heads performed perfectly. Keep in mind we make 30-35 psi boost with no intercooler. Air intake temps are around 300ºF and make 1300 hp+(309 ci) on an engine dyno so it's an extreme application.”

When asked, would you recommend them for street cars that see say 10,000 miles in a year? Jerry’s reply was:
“I would not be afraid to use them on a street application. If it were a balls to the wall (say 750~ hp range plus) I would consider upgrading the valve seats. Even with stock seats (and losing some races because of seat issues) we finished #3 in 2006. So that tells you the power capabilities. These cylinder heads have been used in some pretty extreme applications (N/A and blown) and have proven themselves. One other point to consider is the threads for the spark plugs. They only have about 4 threads. Be careful not to over torque them. That’s usually where the problem arises. Helicoil is probably a good idea there.”