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SVT X 2
09-16-2002, 10:39 PM
The Cobra... will be PAID this Friday!! :thumbsup: :bounce:

Thinking of getting a D.S.S. AFR'd 331... anyone have such a combo? I could build a motor, but why not get the long block??

Any suggestions/input?

Eric4Nitrous
09-17-2002, 04:04 PM
331 is a good motor. It revs hard and quick. Good street motor. If you wasn't worried about gas mileage i'd say 408 with a procharger or vortech :bounce: Whatever you choose good luck :)

Black Snake
09-17-2002, 10:05 PM
Iíve heard good and bad about DSS. Personally if I do go with a 331, I will have it built locally. I want to watch my engine builder and be there every step of the way. I already know someone that I trust, so thatís half the battle.

Big Daddy
09-18-2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Black Snake
Iíve heard good and bad about DSS. Personally if I do go with a 331, I will have it built locally. I want to watch my engine builder and be there every step of the way. I already know someone that I trust, so thatís half the battle.

Hey Rob, just an update on my car... It was still having some fuel issues so I left it with them Sunday and Dan Wagner is towing the car to my house tomorrow FIXED! Now that is service. They fixed the fuel issue, tuned it and delivered it for FREE. Randy and Dan will make sure that you are happy with their work and I would recomend them to anyone needing an engine built or a tune on a chip.

TAKE CARE!!
Big Daddy

SVT X 2
09-19-2002, 12:01 AM
If I knew of a local builder I could trust... I think I would go that route myself... I'm just wondering what block I should have... I'd like to build for future blower... so like 475-500 @ the crank...

Gas milage?? What's that???! :D

Black Snake
09-19-2002, 01:21 PM
I would go with the Sportsman block. It offers more strength over the stock 302 block and is much cheaper than the R block. This way you will have a good base if you decide to go forced induction later down the road. The difficult part will be determining the compression ratio of the motor. If you build a high compression motor now it will work great for a NA set-up but will not be good for forced induction. Worst case you can go middle of the road and cover both options.

I would also go with forged internals. Do it right the first time and build/pay for it once. It might be over-kill now but you will already have the strength when you really need it later.

TMC
09-19-2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Black Snake
I would go with the Sportsman block. It offers more strength over the stock 302 block and is much cheaper than the R block. This way you will have a good base if you decide to go forced induction later down the road. The difficult part will be determining the compression ratio of the motor. If you build a high compression motor now it will work great for a NA set-up but will not be good for forced induction. Worst case you can go middle of the road and cover both options.

I would also go with forged internals. Do it right the first time and build/pay for it once. It might be over-kill now but you will already have the strength when you really need it later.

I would go this route only if a power adder is definate and your looking to make more than 550-600 hp. Otherwise it's just a waste of money to get all the high dollar parts when you don't need them. There are some very inexpensive strocker kits out there that still come with decent pistons that would work great in a stock block. Scat has a 347 kit that comes with an cast steel crank, I-beam rods and forged pistons that can be found for $1000 for the kit. I promise you that the kit is strong enough to hold 600+ hp.

I would also suggest going with the 347 as I really don't see any major downfalls to that over the 331. Mostly just hype about the oiling probs IMO.

Black93Cobra
09-24-2002, 05:45 PM
I have used DSS 331 shortblock in my '93 LX Coupe. The engine ran very strong (360 RWHP NA), revved quick and was a blast to drive. One word of caution about DSS, they balance their engines with the older style 28 oz imbalance, not the newer 5.0 50 oz. That means you have to use a 28 oz balancer and flywheel. DSS mentions nothing about that in their advertisements or in the the literature they send with the shortblock, yet they act as if you should have known that when you call to question why. I suppose you could request the 50 oz at the time of order. Just a little advice to prevent you from duplicating my mistake....fully installed the engine then had to rip it apart to change the balancer and flywheel..:eek:

SVT X 2
09-26-2002, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by Black Snake
I would go with the Sportsman block. It offers more strength over the stock 302 block and is much cheaper than the R block. This way you will have a good base if you decide to go forced induction later down the road. The difficult part will be determining the compression ratio of the motor. If you build a high compression motor now it will work great for a NA set-up but will not be good for forced induction. Worst case you can go middle of the road and cover both options.

I would also go with forged internals. Do it right the first time and build/pay for it once. It might be over-kill now but you will already have the strength when you really need it later.
I'm thinking low compression... want a blower the year after. And yea, for sure forged internals... that's a must.
Got a friend of a friend that will sell me his P-long block for a decent price... think I might use that to build...

SVT X 2
09-26-2002, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by TMC
I would go this route only if a power adder is definate and your looking to make more than 550-600 hp. Otherwise it's just a waste of money to get all the high dollar parts when you don't need them. There are some very inexpensive strocker kits out there that still come with decent pistons that would work great in a stock block. Scat has a 347 kit that comes with an cast steel crank, I-beam rods and forged pistons that can be found for $1000 for the kit. I promise you that the kit is strong enough to hold 600+ hp.

I would also suggest going with the 347 as I really don't see any major downfalls to that over the 331. Mostly just hype about the oiling probs IMO.
Would like 475-500 at the motor... after blower I'm sure.
I don't really need a 347, and yes, the oiling problems. I can achieve the hp out of a 331 no prob, built right I assume... so why go to the 347 extreme? Thanks for the input... I'm still pondering.

p.s. Troy... are you running a 347?

\\Tim

SVT X 2
09-26-2002, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by Black93Cobra
I have used DSS 331 shortblock in my '93 LX Coupe. The engine ran very strong (360 RWHP NA), revved quick and was a blast to drive. One word of caution about DSS, they balance their engines with the older style 28 oz imbalance, not the newer 5.0 50 oz. That means you have to use a 28 oz balancer and flywheel. DSS mentions nothing about that in their advertisements or in the the literature they send with the shortblock, yet they act as if you should have known that when you call to question why. I suppose you could request the 50 oz at the time of order. Just a little advice to prevent you from duplicating my mistake....fully installed the engine then had to rip it apart to change the balancer and flywheel..:eek:
THANK YOU for that info! I had no idea! And how do you like yours then? Did you get a long or short block?

Black93Cobra
09-26-2002, 09:57 AM
THANK YOU for that info! I had no idea! And how do you like yours then? Did you get a long or short block?

No problem, like I said if I can help someone avoid the same problems I had, all the better. Most people aren't aware of that fact until it is too late. It wasn't a big deal but it did cost me extra time and money that could have been spent elsewhere. I do like the DSS 331 and would definitely build another one (in fact I plan to in my track car). I used Edelbrock heads on my current 331 only because I had them on my 302. They are extrude honed but still have the small intake valves. I would love to see what a 331 could produce with the AFR 185 heads you are considering using. If that is the route you choose, let me know the dyno results.

TMC
09-26-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by SVT X 2
Would like 475-500 at the motor... after blower I'm sure.
I don't really need a 347, and yes, the oiling problems. I can achieve the hp out of a 331 no prob, built right I assume... so why go to the 347 extreme? Thanks for the input... I'm still pondering.

p.s. Troy... are you running a 347?

\\Tim

No offense but...just leave the stock bottom end in there if all you want is 475-500 at the motor. With an S-trim and some decent (ei almost any) heads/intake/exhaust you should be able to easily acheive that goal.

LAST302 (not sure if he post here at all) made 480 rwhp on a stock bottom end with Edelbrock heads, Holley intake, shortie headers and 2.5" cats with the stock cam and blower pulleys! I've seen others make around 400 rwhp with stock heads. I'm sure you don't need a stroker to make the power your looking at.

Currently I am not using a 347 in my car but have in the past and will again. And again, I just don't thing the oiling problems that are always brought up are of real concearn when dealing with a 347. From what I've seen most 347's use about the same amount of oil as a stock 302 ho. You can also get a 347 with the shorter 5.315" rod that will move the oil ring off the pin if you like.

Originally posted by Black93Cobra
I have used DSS 331 shortblock in my '93 LX Coupe. The engine ran very strong (360 RWHP NA), revved quick and was a blast to drive. One word of caution about DSS, they balance their engines with the older style 28 oz imbalance, not the newer 5.0 50 oz. That means you have to use a 28 oz balancer and flywheel. DSS mentions nothing about that in their advertisements or in the the literature they send with the shortblock, yet they act as if you should have known that when you call to question why. I suppose you could request the 50 oz at the time of order. Just a little advice to prevent you from duplicating my mistake....fully installed the engine then had to rip it apart to change the balancer and flywheel..:eek:

FWIW there is an unwritten standard of balancing 302 strocker motors to 28oz. You can balance them to 50oz but it will most likely cost you $2-300 more to have it done properly. Most strocker cranks are forged or cast with the intention of balancing to 28 and to get to 50 takes more work but is possible. And from my experience the forged cranks take a bit more work than the cast cranks do to balance out at 50oz.

SVT X 2
09-27-2002, 01:27 AM
No offense taken. I don't know if I'd trust the stock hyepereutectic's with with descent boost... I know people do it all the time, but how long do they get out of it before she nukes...?

TMC
09-30-2002, 04:18 PM
Well, Dave ran his motor for two years with the blower and it didn't blow until he tried to make over 500rwhp. With around 400 rwhp (~475 flywheel) it should last a very long time with the proper tune.

SVT X 2
09-30-2002, 11:49 PM
Troy,
What all do you have done to your car to bump into the 11's?

\\Tim

blown92gt
10-01-2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Black93Cobra
I have used DSS 331 shortblock in my '93 LX Coupe. The engine ran very strong (360 RWHP NA), revved quick and was a blast to drive. One word of caution about DSS, they balance their engines with the older style 28 oz imbalance, not the newer 5.0 50 oz. That means you have to use a 28 oz balancer and flywheel. DSS mentions nothing about that in their advertisements or in the the literature they send with the shortblock, yet they act as if you should have known that when you call to question why. I suppose you could request the 50 oz at the time of order. Just a little advice to prevent you from duplicating my mistake....fully installed the engine then had to rip it apart to change the balancer and flywheel..:eek:


I have d.s.s. motor in my car right now, I haven't had any problems at all and it has taken the abuse I given it well ( 17lbs of boost). And by the way to the guys post above a 331 is supposed to have a 28oz balancer and flywheel, if you have 50oz stuff on your stroker you have the wrong stuff on it.

TMC
10-01-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by SVT X 2
Troy,
What all do you have done to your car to bump into the 11's?

\\Tim

Hey Tim,

I have to change my signature, it seems a bit confusing. My 1995 GT does not go in the 11's but I drive a 1988 Notch that does. I run the 1995 GT at open track events and the 1988 notch at drag race events, I'll change the sig...

But anyhooo, This is the basic formula for the 11 sec car;

306 cubes
flat top pistons
steel stock length rods (probe I-beam)
stock crank
stock block
GT-40 iron "P" heads - unported
Explorer intake - unported
stock camshaft
1.72 rocker arms
1 5/8 shorty headers
Mac pro-chamber
flowmaster catback
275/60/15 BFG drag radials
T-5 trans
4.30 gears
90/10 struts - 50/50 shocks
Moroso drag springs
car still has power steering and the accesory belt
3315 lb with driver

Dean95CobraR
10-01-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by TMC
Hey Tim,

I have to change my signature, it seems a bit confusing. My 1995 GT does not go in the 11's but I drive a 1988 Notch that does. I run the 1995 GT at open track events and the 1988 notch at drag race events, I'll change the sig...


Hi Troy,
I hate to change the subject but have you found anything out on your 95GT?

TMC
10-01-2002, 04:02 PM
Hey Dean, I did find something. Passengers side front soft brake line burst. I still don't know why there was fluid on the other side of the car however as the cap was still on the master cylinder. :mad: really burns me that that could even happen. I had just put new pads on for that day and inspected everything when I was in there!

I also have compression in all 8 holes but no oil pump drive shaft. The sudden jump in RPM when I downshifted must have twisted and snapped it off. The motor will be comming out shortly for a new set of bearings and rings so I will replace any other broken or worn parts at that time. I don't think I even bent any valves:D

SVT X 2
10-09-2002, 12:16 AM
Troy, How streetable is your notch then?

TMC
10-09-2002, 10:21 AM
The notch is like driving a stock 5.0 on the street except for a couple of things. The roll bar, for obvious reasons, is the first thing. The other is that really a pain on the street is the spool. Other than those the car is extremely mild.

Think stock cam!

SVT X 2
10-09-2002, 11:12 PM
wow... cool! I was thinking ALONG the lines of a stock cam... with more exhaust duration. Spool... lol 'hop hop hop' ;)