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View Full Version : PA inspection and emmissions passing


ausie
09-24-2004, 07:49 AM
It finally caught up to me that I had to have emmissions on my Cobra. I asked a question when I first made the appointment, "how do you perform the emmissions testing, do you use the ODBII port?" The operator of the facility gave me the full run down, and from what I gathered they do not even look under the car! :D Time for long tube headers and X-pipe with High flow cats! may sound boaring, but I still would like to be somewhat emmissions compliant to at least PA standards, not California Emmissions compliant though (too restrictive). I even asked about loud exhaust systems and if they can fail a vehicle that may be too loud. Sound is not an issue for inspection or emmissions. Time to add more things to it:D

Boney
09-24-2004, 08:02 AM
There are different inspection areas within Pa. Some of them are visual inspections and some hook up to a machine. Remember, they can always change the law down the road. A friend has a 77 vette that will not pass in our area because he changed the intake and removed some smog equipment. My buddy that owns a service station believes that all of PA will be using the machines soon. This might be better, because it could pass hooke up to a machine and not pass a visual inspection......



Good Luck,
Dave

casey99COBRA
09-24-2004, 10:35 AM
I don't know if the rule here is the same as everywhere, but... Here anything under 1967 you can do anything you want to it and it will pass. i need a 67!

ausie
09-25-2004, 11:21 AM
From what I found out through friends who have mustangs from the 80's era, you can do just about anything under the hood and under the car if you qualify to register it as a classic. There is also the street-rod registration too. Both of which will limit the amount of miles you can put on the car but there will be no emissions or anual inspection. However, since the down fall of the emmissions stations a few years ago, the requirements have changed quite a bit. For vehicles from 95 and newer (ODBII compliant) will have a pass fail test performed throught the ODBII port.

There are several reasons I did not take the Cobra to the Ford dealer. One is the cat-back (no longer stock) and the other is that Ford has changed things on my other vehicles in the past without notification either based on hidden recalls or service bulletins. Regardless of the conditioin of the vehicle, I still want notification before any parts are replaced.

Vehicles older than 95 get the old probe up the tail pipe test since there is no other way to validate that the emissions components are operating. That would require a visual inspection if the test fails. Of course some states do not perform emissions testing.

The laws may change down the road, but they also know that many vehicles that are on the road may not comply with new standards and can only be tested based on the standards that were established when the vehicle was manufactured. At least the Grandfathers clause will be in effect.

If you have a 96 or newer, you could perform your own emissions test just by plugging in a scan tool to the ODBII port. Most scan tools have features that allow you to check the 02 and cats. If you erase any codes that may appear, the diagnostic test will report "not ready" which means you need to drive the vehicle until the conditions are met. My 01 Cobra failed the emissions test prior to installing the cat back. At 26k miles that was not supposed to happen. It turns out that after replacing the EGR valve did it pass. I also got rid of that annoying pinging too. I guess I wanted everything working properly before installing the cat-back to see if there is any change.

What will come next? Long tubes? X-pipe? or supercharger? I think I will upgrade to a supercharger first. :bounce:

Boney
09-28-2004, 09:51 AM
Maybe this can help .



http://www.drivecleanpa.state.pa.us/drivecleanpa/info_changes.htm

SNAKEYE
10-19-2004, 12:44 PM
From what I found out through friends who have mustangs from the 80's era, you can do just about anything under the hood and under the car if you qualify to register it as a classic. There is also the street-rod registration too. Both of which will limit the amount of miles you can put on the car but there will be no emissions or anual inspection. However, since the down fall of the emmissions stations a few years ago, the requirements have changed quite a bit. For vehicles from 95 and newer (ODBII compliant) will have a pass fail test performed throught the ODBII port.

There are several reasons I did not take the Cobra to the Ford dealer. One is the cat-back (no longer stock) and the other is that Ford has changed things on my other vehicles in the past without notification either based on hidden recalls or service bulletins. Regardless of the conditioin of the vehicle, I still want notification before any parts are replaced.

Vehicles older than 95 get the old probe up the tail pipe test since there is no other way to validate that the emissions components are operating. That would require a visual inspection if the test fails. Of course some states do not perform emissions testing.

The laws may change down the road, but they also know that many vehicles that are on the road may not comply with new standards and can only be tested based on the standards that were established when the vehicle was manufactured. At least the Grandfathers clause will be in effect.

If you have a 96 or newer, you could perform your own emissions test just by plugging in a scan tool to the ODBII port. Most scan tools have features that allow you to check the 02 and cats. If you erase any codes that may appear, the diagnostic test will report "not ready" which means you need to drive the vehicle until the conditions are met. My 01 Cobra failed the emissions test prior to installing the cat back. At 26k miles that was not supposed to happen. It turns out that after replacing the EGR valve did it pass. I also got rid of that annoying pinging too. I guess I wanted everything working properly before installing the cat-back to see if there is any change.

What will come next? Long tubes? X-pipe? or supercharger? I think I will upgrade to a supercharger first. :bounce:
I just started to follow this website, and just replied to your post on the idle and pinging problems suggesting that you check the EGR valve. And here you are stating you had the EGR replaced and all is well. So, I'm a bit confused by the timing of the messages and replies, I guess.
SNAKEYE just (back in August) had its first OBDII emissions test. Quick and easy. Prior to this test I had a friend (see below, same guy) plug his tester and laptop in to check things for comparison to his '99. It showed two codes (that did not illuminate the CHECK ENGINE light) that he said meant that the battery had been disconnect recently and that some runtime was required to clear them. In fact, the battery had not been disconnected in months, and the State's testing turned up nothing.
As for which upgrade to do next, I vote for the blower! BIG $, but BIGGER BANG!
I just got thru replacing the IMRC module in my '97 after its being non-functional for awhile, and taking the time to research the maladies of IMRC's. At first, the big word was that IMRC's need to be cleaned. I was prepared for that, but found little in the way of debilitating crud on the runners. In fact, I was alble to operate them manually by hooking the external mechanism with a piece of stiff wire, so I fully expected to find more wrong than just crud. So I put in a new IMRC control module. BINGO! It just went to show me what I had been missing from the Vortech! O-O-O-E-E-E-Y!
Not that I am predujiced toward the Vortech, but I just helped a friend put a Keene Bell S/C on his '99 Cobra with 4.30 rear gears. After our first excursion he asked me what I thought. As a friend, I was honest, it didn't feel like it had the ponies of my Vortech. Subsequent dyno runs backed up my feeling. The results were less than expected. Apparently K-B has just developed their S/C for the '99's & '01's, and all is not exactly as it could be. Reportedly, K-B is working on the situation. In favor of the K-B, I'd say their arrangement on a '99 is a lot simpler than the Vortech on my '97, which is a serpentine belt nightmare, and not so convenient at oil change time.

ausie
10-20-2004, 07:42 AM
snakeye,
At times my morning rants become obscure and or rather long. Sometimes I may add a little of history to indicate what path I took in attempts to ratify the issue. The pining issue became severe with the 01 to the point it was almost undrivable. I did find a means to clean out the carbon deposits in the motor which cured 90% of the issues. Replacing the EGR valve after Ford had it for the pinging issue (they said it was normal, BS) fixed the remaining 9% of the ping issue. The stock EGR was not openning when it should have been. I did not get any codes from the scanner but I also could not get the scanner to pass the cat test either until after replacing the EGR. This was all done this spring. The remaining 1% was corrected two weeks ago by adding an oil separator in the PCV line. At that point I found the cause of the carbon builder which was oil (not from the rings but from the PCV under WOT).

When it came down to deciding which blower to install and how much money it would take from my bank account, I weighted the cost and compared it to trading in for an 04 SVT. Well to my amazement, it was better to trade in than to force the 01 to breath better. Since I still had some life left in the basic warrenty on the 01 (10 days) I made the move to a mustang with a blower and lower compression (as well as a better suspension, and 6 gears).

I have done a lot of digging into many types of superchargers. I also found out the KB kit for the 01 is the same as the one for the 03/04 but with a different pulley plus additional hardware. I did not fear doing the install myself, but what the impact would be to the weak internals with boost. Since I was not completely confident that I had corrected the pinging issue or if there was any undue stress to the connecting rods or pistons from the pinging, I did not want to find out after spending $5000.00 only to find I need to spend a few thousand more to rebuild the motor. It is a sure thing to install a blower, more bang for the buck, but considering what I had experienced with the 01, more bang was looking like kaboom than "weeeee".

SNAKEYE
10-20-2004, 05:42 PM
My friend with the K-B S/C on his '99 is become disgruntled with the lack of Hp and K-B's excuses as to possibly why the Hp lacks. It does not look good.
He did not want to go hog-wild with the boost, so he figured he'd be happy at 6-7 psi on his stock engine, as I am with the 6 psi Vortech. What ever it is I get from the Vortech IS PLENTY! And the promise is it won't self-destruct. I can tell I'm not running anywhere near lean just by looking at the exhaust pipes: carbon black! Yet it passed all of the earlier sniffer and now OBDII emissions tests. I'm happy, especially since I got the IMRC straightened out!

ausie
10-21-2004, 06:23 AM
I would tell your friend to have his car tuned or at least dyno'd to evaluate the HP issue. Due to the differences of superchargers and how they produce boost may explain why many go with the cetrifugal type. The displacement type is supposed to increase low end torque and I know for a fact that the 99 and 01 need help in that area. The problem I see with the KB philosophy is that their tuned chips are all that is required. That may be a good sales strategy, but I find it hard to believe that all 99's and 01's perform the same. Since the motors are hand assembled does not mean that all of them will behave the same way regardless of the ECU code. Also, the heads are different in the 97 and 99. Where the 97 heads will perform better with forced induction with the B casting as compared to the C casting in the 99's and 01's. There was a good article describing all of the modular heads in the October issue of 5.0 magazine which helped me along in the trade-in dilema. Even after trading in the 01 for the 04 I was still contemplating why I traded in. It did not seam that the 04 was any quicker than the 01. I had to take into account that I was familiar with the acceleration of the 01 which launced like a rocket in stock trim, so any increase would not be noticable. For me to really notice a difference, I let a friend drive the 04 with me in the passenger seat. Now the acceleration was unpredicable and not anticipated. I long have forgotten what it felt like to get forced into the seat. Either case, both cars had enough power to make an inexperienced driver behind the wheel a poor combination.

SNAKEYE
10-22-2004, 09:02 AM
My friend has dynoed at least once before and twice since installing the K-B S/C. The second post-install was with a handful of K-B chips. The latest (yesterday) is that K-B is sending him a smaller diameter blower pulley. This will raise the boost (not exactly what my friend wants). Then back to the dyno. I'll see him tomorrow for a complete update.

ausie
11-06-2004, 07:34 AM
I also have a 96 Ford Exporer which has been in the shop for over a week for inspection and emission. I already knew ahead of time that it was going to fail the emissions test. So far it has cost me $900.00 for repairs, needed a complete exhaust system installed. The old one was rusted out. I expected that since it has over 153k miles on it. I got into conversation with the owner of the shop that has the SUV under their care, but the discussion was on the Mustang and what I can do to it legally. He stated that I could easily change the headers and H-pipe as long as it does not disrupt the drive cycle when they perform the emissions test. From what I gathered, they actually force the emissions components and ECU to perform a new cycle to ensure that the components are functional. Just food for thought. I even asked if I were to replace the cats with high flow cats would it still pass. He stated I can legally change the components as long as they do not release any codes that would indicate a malfuncion or poor response. Sounds like long tube headers and high flow catted x-pipe will be on the way for the 04 SVT.