PDA

View Full Version : New clutch for racing - 96 Cobra


Mystic_Cobra
10-13-2004, 12:53 PM
There's not much left in my current clutch and it's getting unbearable to drive. It takes about 100 lbs of force to push the damn pedal in when it's been sitting. I've tried adjusting it to no avail. It's slipping on the track and whenever I get on it hard.

So, I was planning to go with a lightweight Quarter Master clutch/flywheel. The catch is that I'm not quite ready to take my Cobra off street duty yet. I still drive it daily.

Finally, my question: Is there a good race clutch for my Cobra (stock T-45) that I can drive on the street occasionally or should I hold off until I am ready to dedicate this thing to 100% race duty?

Levi
10-13-2004, 01:49 PM
When I do mine, I am going with a Spec Clutch Stage 2 should do the job.

Stage
1, 285 Torque
2, 370
3, 500
4, 510
5, 680

sfuller
10-13-2004, 02:49 PM
Jimmy,

I just installed a Spec Stage 2 clutch, along with their aluminum flywheel in spring 2003. My car still has the original T45 installed, along with some minor engine and a ton of suspension mods. In the year plus that I have had it in, I have found the clutch to be quite streetable. The pedal effort is not really any harder than the stock unit and it sure grabs a lot better. If I have had any issues on the street, I think it's mainly from the aluminum flywheel, but once you get used to it, it's not really a problem. My wife has driven the car a number of times, and I think that she has killed the car due to the clutch twice now in two years. I put that down to the difference between the Spec clutch and the stock clutch in her SVT Contour. The Spec clutch handled autocrosses and open track days last year with no difficulties.

I bought mine from On-Track Performance (http://www.recaro-seats.com/)

Steve Fuller

rshelbygt
10-13-2004, 03:56 PM
There's not much left in my current clutch and it's getting unbearable to drive. It takes about 100 lbs of force to push the damn pedal in when it's been sitting. I've tried adjusting it to no avail. It's slipping on the track and whenever I get on it hard.


Are you sure you need a new clutch? When I had my 87 GT I had an issue with clutch cables "melting". I had headers on the car...and the clutch cable was just close enough (was not touching) to start to melt. It would be nearly impossible to press the clutch down until everthing was hot. After that...it required normal pedal pressure (for a Centerforce).

Just a thought.................

justagt
10-13-2004, 04:00 PM
Just get a QuarterMaster. They make the best stuff. Wouldn't the 8.5 inch setup they offer work on the street for you?


Or, it may be time just to pull the car off the street!! :D

Mystic_Cobra
10-13-2004, 07:59 PM
Thanks for the input guys.

I know the one I have is bad. I can't accelerate out of a turn in 2nd gear without the clutch slipping. My last event at CMP (WOW-that was a long time ago) I had to do the last two sessions in 3rd gear. I haven't figured out why it seems so "heavy" but I know I need a new one.
I plan to talk to the techs at QuarterMaster and see if their race unit would be streetable for a short time. I guess the 8.5" unit is the only one they offer for the 4.6/T45?

tnturbo
10-13-2004, 10:28 PM
I've had a Spec stage 3 and AL flywheel in mine for a year and a half with no problems. After a few break in miles it is perfectly streetable. Occasionally chatters a little in reverse, but not bad. Pedal effort is very light

justagt
10-14-2004, 08:37 AM
I plan to talk to the techs at QuarterMaster and see if their race unit would be streetable for a short time. I guess the 8.5" unit is the only one they offer for the 4.6/T45?

If you call up there, see if there is a Jeff Neil there. He is the super cool guy that hooked me up with there stuff a couple of years ago. He can help you out for sure.

As far as the 8.5, I THINK it is designed to be used on the street, but I am not sure. Jason, Bryan, and I put one on once a while back, so maybe they will chime in about streetability. I would think QM offers more than just that one, but if they do, they would be a lot smaller and then you start getting in drivability issues. Just ask Shugg how tricky it is to get a car rolling with a small clutch!

I tell your mom 'hi' for you! :D




PS - Just for clarification........... I work with his mom at the bank. Did for about 3 years before I put it all together.

AI/X #08
10-14-2004, 10:33 PM
Here's another vote for the Quartermaster clutch. I've raced two years now around 20 races on this clutch after testing it a long time ago. It's the Extreme V 8.5 Sintered iron sprung hub version. I used to go through two clutches a year till I put this one on. You can slip it when you need to without worrying about frying it. The aluminum flywheel and entire clutch assembly only weigh 18lb's. It is also rebuildable which saves money on the long run.
http://www.2foolsracing.com/images/extremecar/extreme%20car%20014.jpg

Mystic_Cobra
10-14-2004, 11:26 PM
Thanks again, guys. Still looking for feedback from Shugg.

Thanks for 'splainin the comment about my mom. I'm sure the gang here would be all over that. :eek:

I tried calling QM today and got nothing but VM. The web form for tech inquiries wasn't working. I'll try again tomorrow.

I'll try to get Jeff Neil and mention the "Extreme V 8.5 Sintered iron sprung hub version".

mwilson7
10-15-2004, 08:54 AM
We use the 7.25" triple disk Quartermaster and I can definitely state that it is NOT streetable.

Mystic_Cobra
10-15-2004, 09:59 AM
Thanks again for the ongoing feedback.

AI/X #08
10-15-2004, 11:40 AM
If you don't have any luck trying to get Jeff, let me know and I'll try to get someone to work with you.

Wilson, are you guys having any problems with the clutch like getting started, or loading? The Extreme V 8.5 comes with options of the disk material. The one I tested was the Sintered iron with the pucks on the disk. I haven't had any problems getting around the pits, or loading at all. What does the 7.5 weigh? Are you using a flywheel?
And lastly did you guys see my car in the Quartermaster catalog? :D

justagt
10-15-2004, 04:00 PM
We use the 7.25" triple disk Quartermaster and I can definitely state that it is NOT streetable.

And neither is a 5.5.

justagt
10-15-2004, 04:01 PM
And lastly did you guys see my car in the Quartermaster catalog? :D

I hope to be able to ask the same thing one day. :)

mwilson7
10-15-2004, 05:03 PM
If you don't have any luck trying to get Jeff, let me know and I'll try to get someone to work with you.

Wilson, are you guys having any problems with the clutch like getting started, or loading? The Extreme V 8.5 comes with options of the disk material. The one I tested was the Sintered iron with the pucks on the disk. I haven't had any problems getting around the pits, or loading at all. What does the 7.5 weigh? Are you using a flywheel?
And lastly did you guys see my car in the Quartermaster catalog? :D

We don't have any problems getting around but with the thickness of the material you DEFINITELY don't want to be slipping the clutch or use the drive the car onto a trailer or dyno or your asking for troubles.

I believe the clutch weighed 7 lbs and our flywheel weighs 8 lbs. Our replacement triple discs only cost us $25 for all three so it's not a matter of cost when it comes to replacement but time.

AI/X #08
10-16-2004, 12:05 AM
We don't have any problems getting around but with the thickness of the material you DEFINITELY don't want to be slipping the clutch or use the drive the car onto a trailer or dyno or your asking for troubles.

I believe the clutch weighed 7 lbs and our flywheel weighs 8 lbs. Our replacement triple discs only cost us $25 for all three so it's not a matter of cost when it comes to replacement but time.

Are you referring to the heat and the lack of dissipation, or the lack of material to use?

So essentially the smaller disk weighs about 3lb's less, but isn't slippable, I.E. not streetable. At least the disks are cheap!

svt_coupe
10-18-2004, 09:55 AM
Luna - I've emailed Jimmy off line about the 1/4 Master unit. I have the same sintered iron unit at you. It rocks.

Do you know what the replacement cost is on our discs?

Mystic_Cobra
10-18-2004, 11:00 AM
Do you guys happen to know if the input shaft on the T45 is 1-1/16 X10? The tech asked but said he should be able to find it and then would call me back.

Any of you deal with Chip Lane at CV Products?

svt_coupe
10-18-2004, 11:08 AM
Should be the same as the T-5. Can't remember what the pattern is...

Sadler?

Mystic_Cobra
10-18-2004, 11:49 AM
Ok, so I got a call back from QM...Kevin said that the PN I got was correct for my car and also gave me a separate PN for the release bearing. I'll get a new pilot bearing locally. I didn't think to ask, but I guess my existing fork will work. He confirmed when I asked if "everything" I'd need for the project was included.

Any recommendations on which distributor to go with? Anyone have a "friend" at one of their race shops that might give me a better price?
Looks like there are 3 in VA (DRP, Malvern, Stock Car Products) plus about 7 in NC. They recommended CV Products in Thomasville.
Do you guys do business with any of these companies?
thanks!

mwilson7
10-18-2004, 01:03 PM
Are you referring to the heat and the lack of dissipation, or the lack of material to use?

So essentially the smaller disk weighs about 3lb's less, but isn't slippable, I.E. not streetable. At least the disks are cheap!

Lack of material to use.

Ours is the exact same clutch system that is used on the Nextel Cup cars. Replacement parts are plentiful.

http://on-trackperformance.com/DSCN2075.JPG

Luna - One thing not to get caught up on is total weight of the clutch system. The moment of intertia is much more important. The Quartermaster catalog gives a good description on what MOI is and why it's so important on page 4-5.

Quartermaster catalog can be found at: http://www.racingclutches.com/qmcatfinal-excl-cover.pdf

Mystic_Cobra
10-19-2004, 12:21 PM
Thanks all!!

AI/X #08
10-19-2004, 02:16 PM
Luna - I've emailed Jimmy off line about the 1/4 Master unit. I have the same sintered iron unit at you. It rocks.

Do you know what the replacement cost is on our discs?

No I'm not sure, but I remember them not being too much or I wouldn't have gone with the system. They have changed disks a couple times which is why I don't know the current cost. I'd be happy to find out for you if you like.

AI/X #08
10-19-2004, 02:18 PM
Lack of material to use.

Ours is the exact same clutch system that is used on the Nextel Cup cars. Replacement parts are plentiful.

Luna - One thing not to get caught up on is total weight of the clutch system. The moment of intertia is much more important. The Quartermaster catalog gives a good description on what MOI is and why it's so important on page 4-5.

Quartermaster catalog can be found at: http://www.racingclutches.com/qmcatfinal-excl-cover.pdf

Yeah I realize that. For me it was about balance. I wanted to be able to rely on the longetivity of the thing more than the small advantage of a smaller diameter clutch. The weight for me was not just about MOI, but overall weight. I run in a spec class with the silver car besides running it in AI and it is friggin heavy.

justagt
10-21-2004, 09:03 AM
Should be the same as the T-5. Can't remember what the pattern is...

Sadler?


Yes, it is a coarse spline input shaft.

Also, I have dealt with CV Products many times. Very good people and usually are on top of their game.

Mystic_Cobra
10-21-2004, 08:05 PM
Anyone know where I can get a cheap clutch alignment tool? I don't have a spare tranny to cut off the input shaft (anymore).

svt_coupe
10-22-2004, 07:40 AM
Go to any autoparts store (Autozone, PepGirls, etc.) and get one of their rental/borrow tools. They should have universal clutch alignment tools there. That's what we used for mine, even though Mr. Quartermaster (Will Sadler) said we didn't need one. :D

justagt
10-22-2004, 08:10 AM
even though Mr. Quartermaster (Will Sadler) said we didn't need one. :D

yeah, well, I usually don't work with amateur single disc stuff.







punk.

Mystic_Cobra
11-04-2004, 06:56 PM
Ok, so I know this is a "race item" so I expect a little noise, but this thing sounds like it's breaking loose in the bellhousing. :eek:
I'm hoping it's an adjustment thing and I'm headed out now to check that.
Here's the deal:
-when it's fully engaged no noise at all.
-with engine running, in neutral, not touching the clutch, it sounds scrape-y like the disc is scraping across the flywheel.
-when I then push the clutch pedal down it starts chattering and wailing.
-while driving slowly (35) at low rpm (2000), the pedal jumps up and down and the thing makes all kind of racket.
-Also, several times while coming to a stop at a light, as soon as I come to the full stop and push the clutch pedal down, it stalls.
I tried turning the firewall adjuster out a couple turns and in a couple turns and it didn't make much of a difference.
I'm going to crawl under it and see how much play is at the fork. I think I didn't have enough there with my last one and that caused premature wear. sound right?

Any tips guys?

johnbasf
11-04-2004, 09:03 PM
No tech here Jimmy, call QM.

BOC- Beau
01-07-2005, 01:19 PM
Jimmy, what did you determine the problem was with your clutch setup? I know you had a problem with your bearing retainer didn't you? Just looking for an update.

johnbasf
01-07-2005, 01:36 PM
Beau, did you ever get yours???

BOC- Beau
01-07-2005, 01:48 PM
Yes, I just need to get some rebuild pieces. I also just put Mark Dandurand's in. It seems to be working well.

Mystic_Cobra
01-07-2005, 02:56 PM
After I got the car back from the shop with the clutch installed, I made it a few miles before it started coming apart. I made it home, parked it and jacked it up and found the loose bearing/fork. I took it back to the shop and told them I'd try to find out what, if any, adjustments needed to be made to get it working again and prevent another break-down. After talking to Shugg, Sadler and QM engineeing, I determined that the broken bearing retainer had to be caused by the misaligned bearing/fork setup. The instructions don't tell you how to use the adjustable pivot stud that comes with the kit. The shop didn't use it. They had used the stock pivot stud because they didn't think that changing the height of the pivot point would help. The shop decided that they didn't want to work on the car anymore, so I picked it up and brought it back home to fix myself in the driveway. The trans and driveshaft were already out. I swapped out the front cover of the trans to get a good bearing retainer in it the quickest. I changing the pivot stud, lowering it 3/8" per Shugg/Sadler/MM and put the sucker back together.
I got it back in one piece and tried running it while still on jack stands. Everything seemed smooth and a little noise as expected not a lot noisy like before.
I drove it gently the first couple trips. I added 200, 300, 500 miles. No problems. I've got about 800 miles on it now. No problems.
No doubt the clutch is VERY touchy. I've stalled it about 5 times. Mostly the first couple times I drove it. The engagement is very quick, not much slip. It feels more powerful, no question. The clutch/flywheel assy weighs about half of stock.
I'm very happy with it. I just wish I had not listened to all the advice telling me I couldn't do it myself and that I should pay a shop to do it. I would have had the car back together faster and for less money.
I guess I fix EVERYTHING myself from now on. AND I'm collecting a spare everything.
I'll save the clutch cable story for another day...
:)

justagt
01-07-2005, 04:51 PM
I've stalled it about 5 times.


Wuss.




QM stuff ROCKS!

Mystic_Cobra
01-07-2005, 11:45 PM
Excuse me. Some of us actually drive our cars on the street.

:)