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InfamousSVT
11-30-2004, 03:36 AM
Ok, I know I've asked this before about porting the Eaton or going with the Whipple/Kenne Belle, but I just can't make up my mind:dunno: ! I'd like to get the supercharger upgrade and was wondering if I'd need anything else to beef up the engine or anything for the rearend? I mean when running the car up to 14/15psi and putting out around 550+hp I don't want to regret:( it down the road! Any info would be greatly appreciated.:)

Thanks in advance!
-J

NO 5 OH
11-30-2004, 06:44 AM
Ok, I know I've asked this before about porting the Eaton or going with the Whipple/Kenne Belle, but I just can't make up my mind:dunno: ! I'd like to get the supercharger upgrade and was wondering if I'd need anything else to beef up the engine or anything for the rearend? I mean when running the car up to 14/15psi and putting out around 550+hp I don't want to regret:( it down the road! Any info would be greatly appreciated.:)

Speed costs money... how fast do you want to go ;)

When upgrading the blower on these cars, whether a ported Eaton or a twin screw... there are things that need to be addressed when you do the upgrade or Murphy's Law will ring true. A more efficient blower means more air in, which means that fuel requirements will change. I've seen 600 + made at the wheels with a 2.2L KB, 55 lb injectors and the stock pumps... I wouldn't recommend this however. At the minimum you'll need bigger injectors and a pump upgrade or the boost-a-pump that comes in all of KB's kits. That is if you want to make a good deal of boost... stock fuel system is fine up to 13 psi on a twin screw blower, at least from what I've read/been told.

As power increases... the "weak links" will start to show themselves. If you like to drag race then a 1/2 shaft will become a victim... perhaps the input shaft in the tranny will twist in two. The stock clutch definitely won't hold up if you drive it like you stole it. If you can show restraint with new found power at the 550 rwhp level like you're saying... then you can get by with less.

I have a 2.3L Whipple coming soon... here's what I've got either coming or "laying around" in preparation for 600 + at the wheels:

2.3L Whipple Charger w/3.5" pulley
60 lb Seimen/Deka injectors w/adapters
SCT 2400 "Big Air" mass air
Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump, 40 amp
3.0" blower pulley for race gas tune :D
Tune by Jerry and Chris from SCT
Drive Shaft Shop Level 5 1/2 shafts (inner and outer CV's)
Zone 5/Billetflow IRS brace

And very soon I need to order a new clutch, flywheel, and 26 spline input shaft... as I'm sure the stock stuff won't make it very long after the blower is on and tuned. As you can see... this stuff isn't cheap and the price is even greater if you have someone do the work for you. Luckily for me all that I won't be doing is tuning the car... as I'd blow it sky high if I even tried :rotf:

Hope this helps,

Shannon

gnxs
11-30-2004, 09:05 AM
Speed costs money... how fast do you want to go ;)

When upgrading the blower on these cars, whether a ported Eaton or a twin screw... there are things that need to be addressed when you do the upgrade or Murphy's Law will ring true. A more efficient blower means more air in, which means that fuel requirements will change. I've seen 600 + made at the wheels with a 2.2L KB, 55 lb injectors and the stock pumps... I wouldn't recommend this however. At the minimum you'll need bigger injectors and a pump upgrade or the boost-a-pump that comes in all of KB's kits. That is if you want to make a good deal of boost... stock fuel system is fine up to 13 psi on a twin screw blower, at least from what I've read/been told.

As power increases... the "weak links" will start to show themselves. If you like to drag race then a 1/2 shaft will become a victim... perhaps the input shaft in the tranny will twist in two. The stock clutch definitely won't hold up if you drive it like you stole it. If you can show restraint with new found power at the 550 rwhp level like you're saying... then you can get by with less.

I have a 2.3L Whipple coming soon... here's what I've got either coming or "laying around" in preparation for 600 + at the wheels:

2.3L Whipple Charger w/3.5" pulley
60 lb Seimen/Deka injectors w/adapters
SCT 2400 "Big Air" mass air
Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump, 40 amp
3.0" blower pulley for race gas tune :D
Tune by Jerry and Chris from SCT
Drive Shaft Shop Level 5 1/2 shafts (inner and outer CV's)
Zone 5/Billetflow IRS brace

And very soon I need to order a new clutch, flywheel, and 26 spline input shaft... as I'm sure the stock stuff won't make it very long after the blower is on and tuned. As you can see... this stuff isn't cheap and the price is even greater if you have someone do the work for you. Luckily for me all that I won't be doing is tuning the car... as I'd blow it sky high if I even tried :rotf:

Hope this helps,

Shannon
I'd say that sums it up nicely. I just put a Whipple on and have all the upgrades mentioned above (except the Level 5 halfshafts). I'm running the 3.25 pulley (16 psi) on the street, with the 3.0 (18 psi) ready for track use. If you upgrade to a KB/Whipple and don't do everything NO 5 OH mentioned (at least as far as fuel/tune), you won't be enjoying your newfound power for long. :eek:

Silver03Snake
11-30-2004, 08:30 PM
I think he means 550 with the twin screw.

You "gotta-ask-yourself a question", can you be satisfied with 550 rwhp? The answer is probably NO. Don't even listen to KB that you can run with the stock fuel injectors and MAF sensor up to 600 rwhp. Do it right the first time and that means 55 up on FI's. You have to pull the blower (at least on a KB) if you need to change out FI's on the passenger side because the inlet covers the fuel rail. I've done two KB installs. I'm not sure about the inlet on the Whipple and if it bolts to the blower housing like the Eaton. The KB is one piece.

You will also need a MAF Extender or an SCT meter to avoid pegging the meter. The Extender is $100 and the SCT meter is $300. I run the Extender. As far as the fuel pump, some say twin Focus pumps and some say the KB BAP and some say one or the other is bad or better than the other one. I use the BAP. I've had good luck so far with my set up.

InfamousSVT
11-30-2004, 10:14 PM
So after purchasing the supercharger upgrade, basically the only other thing to upgrade is the fuel lines, pumps, injectors, etc......?
Oh yeah and what is the MAF extender for?

Would it be possible to do all the fuel upgrades first, or should I just get all of them and wait until I order the supercharger upgrade to put it all on at once?

Here's some links to the things I think I need, let me know if I'm wrong!
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03stacker.htm
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03rails.htm

Anything else?

gnxs
12-01-2004, 09:38 AM
So after purchasing the supercharger upgrade, basically the only other thing to upgrade is the fuel lines, pumps, injectors, etc......?
Oh yeah and what is the MAF extender for?

Would it be possible to do all the fuel upgrades first, or should I just get all of them and wait until I order the supercharger upgrade to put it all on at once?

Here's some links to the things I think I need, let me know if I'm wrong!
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03stacker.htm
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03rails.htm

Anything else?
You shouldn't need to upgrade the fuel rails. Without getting into specifics, it basically will allow your stock MAF to read the increased air volume that will need to flow through it to make more than ~500 rwhp. Your tuner needs to know you have an MAF extender and what it's set at to properly build you a tune. I got an SCT MAF calibrated for my 60 lb injectors and a tune to match the combo.

You should do all the upgrades when you put the new blower on:

- Blower
- Injectors
- Injector adapters
- New MAF or MAF Extender
- Upgraded fuel pumps and/or KB BAP

It easier to do at the same time and there's no need to have the stuff on before your upgrade anyway.

Hope this helps.

gnxs
12-01-2004, 09:39 AM
You have to pull the blower (at least on a KB) if you need to change out FI's on the passenger side because the inlet covers the fuel rail. I've done two KB installs. I'm not sure about the inlet on the Whipple and if it bolts to the blower housing like the Eaton. The KB is one piece.
The Whipple is the same way.

davelegguy
12-01-2004, 01:28 PM
I am running the kenne bell with denso plugs 2 ranges colder, full bassani cat backs and 15 psi pulley and a custome dyno chip my stock maf gets pegged at 6000 rpm and the tune is good to6300 my af is 11.7 across the band with stock injectors and pump my dyno guys say I can run the 17 psi pulley on 93 octane with a slight chip mod but I like the safety factor . Ive got 10,000miles on the kenne bell set up and so far it has been ROCK SOLID. (knock on wood) When I got the custom tune we got rid of the boost a spark and the kenne bell chip (my mileage was terrible due to the over safe tune of kb's chip) I ran the boost a pump ans spark for about 3000 miles before my dyno tune when we took them off it had No effect on the hp or tq as we refined the tune the #'s increased to what you see on my tag on the left and thos are after10 runs on a hot humid day with everything hot under the hood we could have used another 2 or 3 runs to smooth out the top end but I and they were pressed for time. I feel that I have a 97% tune right now I seldom push it above 6000 rpm(i am an old fart) LOVE THE BOOOOOOST!

Silver03Snake
12-01-2004, 04:04 PM
So after purchasing the supercharger upgrade, basically the only other thing to upgrade is the fuel lines, pumps, injectors, etc......?
Oh yeah and what is the MAF extender for?

Would it be possible to do all the fuel upgrades first, or should I just get all of them and wait until I order the supercharger upgrade to put it all on at once?

Here's some links to the things I think I need, let me know if I'm wrong!
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03stacker.htm
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03rails.htm

Anything else?

The MAF sensor reads how much air is going into the engine so it can send the proper amount of fuel to the engine. It is an analog output, it sends a variable amount of voltage to the computer that equates a specific voltage to the amount of air. At low engine speeds the voltage will be low and at higher revs the voltage will approach five volts.

With the additional air from the twin screw, the stock meter will peg out at five volts well before redline. I've been told that it's the computer that can only read up to five volts and that the stock MAF will actually go higher in voltage. Either way, you have to scale back the voltage so it is able to read through redline without hitting five volts. The MAF Extender or the SCT Meter is set up to scale back the voltage. It will send out lower voltage compared to the stock meter. You can not run with either of these without having the chip tuned for it and I recommend a dyno tune. They made 19 pulls on my 03 before they got it right. Most say the MAF Extender is as good as the SCT meter and it's only $100 compared to $300 for the SCT meter. The SCT meter looks just like the stock MAF sensor and housing and is a direct replacement. The MAF Extender is a small module that is spliced between the stock meter and the computer. It's easy to install and it has a set of DIP switches so the dyno tuner can set his own scale. I use the Extender.

I wouldn't change the fuel line. I think some of the people changing them out have not changed out other restrictions like fittings to a matching size so they haven't gained anything. It's like hooking a firehose to a sink, it's still only going to flow as fast as the valve on the sink. As far as fuel rails, you won't get anything under the KB except the stock rails. The intake neck on the KB is right on top of the fuel rail with almost zero clearance. Not sure about the Whipple.

If you buy a KB you will get everything you need except the Extender/SCT meter and fuel injectors. I would also buy a set of harnesses so you don't have to cut and splice and it looks factory. The KB kit comes with a full set of gaskets, vacuum lines and a lot of other stuff including a BAP. You don't get anything with the Whipple. You can order the BAP from KB. I recommend a dyno tune or at the very least a chip from JDM or Amazon.

davelegguy
12-01-2004, 04:54 PM
I should note that my af is 11.7 to red line in spite of my maf being pegged, If I was to start over I would address the maf issue before the dyno tune ...hindsite is 20/20. :bounce:

Firme
12-01-2004, 05:19 PM
I should note that my af is 11.7 to red line in spite of my maf being pegged, If I was to start over I would address the maf issue before the dyno tune ...hindsite is 20/20. :bounce:

just an FYI, if your MAF is being pegged, read the 3rd paragraph on the insert here... the part about MAF being pegged http://www.svtcobraclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909&highlight=Jerry. That is from the mouth of one of the best Mustang tuners anywhere...

I would hate for you to hurt your engine.

BIGV
12-01-2004, 07:11 PM
So let me see if I understand this correctly. If I go with the whipple stock pulley i bieleve 3.5 13 or 14 psi I dont have to change anything fuel system wise and should get around what in HP/TQ. If I go with a smaller pulley I need to upgrade the fuel system and maf. Now for the tough one if I go with the stock pulley but may want more power down the road wouldm I have to remove the s/c to install the injectors. If this is true would it be better to just up the injectors when I change the s/c. Also do the 55/60 lb injectors just plug right in I keep seeing something about extenders. Any info is appreciated since my car is away for the winter the install will take place soon. Im not sure if I will ever go to a smaller pulley is it ok to run the larger injectors with the stock whipple pulley

Silver03Snake
12-02-2004, 11:05 AM
So let me see if I understand this correctly. If I go with the whipple stock pulley i bieleve 3.5 13 or 14 psi I dont have to change anything fuel system wise and should get around what in HP/TQ. If I go with a smaller pulley I need to upgrade the fuel system and maf. Now for the tough one if I go with the stock pulley but may want more power down the road wouldm I have to remove the s/c to install the injectors. If this is true would it be better to just up the injectors when I change the s/c. Also do the 55/60 lb injectors just plug right in I keep seeing something about extenders. Any info is appreciated since my car is away for the winter the install will take place soon. Im not sure if I will ever go to a smaller pulley is it ok to run the larger injectors with the stock whipple pulley

You won't be able to put a Whipple/KB on your engine and not want power.

but may want more power down the road wouldm I have to remove the s/c to install the injectors.

You have to pull the blower to install fuel injectors on the passenger side. A set of FI's are around $450-500. You'll have to ask yourself if you did do the twin screw with the stock FI's and you later wanted to upgrade if you want the added cost to pull the blower. You can pull the blower around 8 hours. Most shops charge about $400.

Also do the 55/60 lb injectors just plug right in I keep seeing something about extenders.

No. The bigger FI's have a different connector than the Ford. You can buy harnesses which are shorty adapters with the Ford connector on one end and the FI's connector on the other side. Procharger sells these. Should be able to get them elsewhere. The Extender I mentioned is for the MAF sensor. Read next.

Im not sure if I will ever go to a smaller pulley is it ok to run the larger injectors with the stock whipple pulley

Yes. Keep in mind though that when you change the FI's you will need to have the chip retuned. Go ahead and get a MAF Extender. It's about $125 shipped. Then get your tune and you'll be set. I would get an SCT chip that will store four programs. You can have one program for 13 psi and then a few race programs so you can switch pulleys depending on how much power you won't to run and have the program for it.

Silver03Snake
12-02-2004, 11:33 AM
MAF Extender: http://www.mafterburner.com/

BIGV
12-02-2004, 09:55 PM
Thanks silver that was very nice to address each individual concern I had I appreciate the time you took.:thumbsup:

gnxs
12-03-2004, 10:25 AM
Silver addressed all your issues nicely, I'd only disagree with one point - the blower removal/install should take about 3-5 hours, not 8 (even if it's your first time doing it).