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davelegguy
02-16-2005, 10:41 AM
I just thought I'd mention last weeks brief article on the future of Svt. It is better than ever and they promise that the next cobra (debuts next month) will be the best ever and that there ar 4 or 5 other vehicles in development including at least one 4 wheel drive unit. They are committed to developing supercharged and turbocharged V-8s and will also be working on 4 bangers as well . The designer of the new Stang is at the helm of svt and there is a host of new blood from the top to support the future of our addiction. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

RF Cobra
02-16-2005, 08:27 PM
The designer of the new Stang is at the helm of svt
That is what SCARES me. When asked why he kept the solid rear axle he gave two reasons. The first was cost. The second was that the majority of Mustang owners weren't smart enough to know/didn't have a clue as to what kind of rear end was in the car anyway. :eek: If he really thinks we are that stupid then there is no telling what corners he may try to cut since we are too dumb to be able to notice...

ausie
02-17-2005, 07:13 AM
Perhaps his comments were missleading. I do recall seeing a TV review on the new 05. They were boasting the re-design of the rear end. A solid axle is cheaper to mass produce than the IRS, but hopefully that will remain an exclusive component of the Cobra.

davelegguy
02-17-2005, 10:22 AM
The new cobra is going to have 450 to500 hp on the showroom floor those will get tweaked into the 700 hp range. no one is making stuff to keep the half shafts/pumpkins from blowing up at those levels you can keep a live axel together into the 1200 hp level for a lot less dough. The guys going over 650 hp are putting in live axles on a regular basis now anyway. If you are a road racer griggs racing can get you to outpull an M3 or ferrari F40 on the skid pad and the track for under 5k with the "cheaper setup". I don't think the SVT guys are going to drop the outstanding value of the products they bring to market. They are as hardcore as we are!

gnxs
02-17-2005, 05:24 PM
The new cobra is going to have 450 to500 hp on the showroom floor those will get tweaked into the 700 hp range. no one is making stuff to keep the half shafts/pumpkins from blowing up at those levels you can keep a live axel together into the 1200 hp level for a lot less dough. The guys going over 650 hp are putting in live axles on a regular basis now anyway. If you are a road racer griggs racing can get you to outpull an M3 or ferrari F40 on the skid pad and the track for under 5k with the "cheaper setup". I don't think the SVT guys are going to drop the outstanding value of the products they bring to market. They are as hardcore as we are!
While I agree with most of that and know that a good solid axle is a drag racers' best friend, there are numerous guys keeping their IRS together with only DSS Level 5 half-shafts and an IRS brace.

Most of them are street cars at full weight running from high 9's to low 11's. Many high rpm launches on ET Streets haven't killed them yet. The IRS is surprisingly durable with a little beefing and avoiding wheelhop.

RF Cobra
02-17-2005, 06:52 PM
Perhaps his comments were missleading.
It was a printed quote in Car and Driver. Sadly, it was pretty cut and dry.

Levi
02-18-2005, 09:47 AM
All-wheel-drive performance models, Turbo- and superchargers, OH MY.

So what can fans expect? Martens says SVT will maintain its core of high-performance V8-powered rear-wheel-drive vehicles. It will expand into inline four-cylinder cars as well. And it will break ground venturing into all-wheel-drive performance models. Turbo- and superchargers also figure prominently. And SVT will draw heavily on lessons learned developing the Ford GT, from its racing experience, and with engineers who bring cross-systems expertise.

The most bang for the buck.

Thai-Tang says under his stewardship he aims to make sure SVT core values of performance, exclusivity, substance and value remain intact. “It’s easy to build a strong-performing $100,000 car,” he says. “It’s a lot harder to do a strong-performing $20,000 car. You have to be a lot more creative.”

Ford does have some balls.
Martens admits even when you put all the pieces in place, you still must have “the moxie to develop the products—you have to have people with cars at the core of their essence.”

No turning back now!

One of those guys, SVT papa Coletti, wishes his successors the best: “We’ve laid down a lot of rubber, and I hope the company will continue to do that.”

The cost of performace is what its all about.

When Ford rolls out the SVT Cobra version of its all-new Mustang at the New York auto show in March, take a peek underneath. If our sources are right, your prying eyes will spy a live rear axle—not an independent rear suspension, the setup that would be in keeping with the suspension on the outgoing model, and is therefore anticipated by the SVT Cobra faithful.

Ford execs are officially mum, including product chief Phil Martens, who said as recently as the Detroit auto show that no decision had been made on the Cobra’s suspension. Hau Thai-Tang, chief engineer on the 2005 Mustang and now SVT chief, did hint we can expect the next Cobra to surpass 400 hp (we hear 450 hp) and hit a price of about $40,000. The SVT Cobra goes on sale in 2006 as an ’07 model.

Mirage
02-18-2005, 11:10 AM
Levi~

One of those guys, SVT papa Coletti, wishes his successors the best: “We’ve laid down a lot of rubber, and I hope the company will continue to do that.”

Hmmm, did I miss something? When did Coletti resign?

davelegguy
02-18-2005, 11:32 AM
He retired jan1 nothing interesting. Just a changing of the guard.

Mirage
02-18-2005, 03:51 PM
davelegguy~ Gotcha! :thumbsup:

jjraiser
02-22-2005, 07:57 AM
Let face it, if SVT comes out with a solid rear axle on the next Cobra Mustang, they will look like baffoons. Why? Because the GTO, Corvette, Viper, M3, and other high-end sports cars the Cobra will competing with all have high hp V8s WITH an IRS. Why can't Ford do it? Cost? Give me a break. Mark my words. Ford will put an IRS in the thing when it can get to it. They blew their wad on the Ford GT and don't have enought to R&D a 500hp-worthy IRS for the Cobra Mustang, that's what they did.

I mean, what will be the difference between the Mustang GT and Mustang Cobra? 150-200 HP and a 6th gear??? Hell, buy a GT and tune it, and save $10K. Ford knows this $40K car will be competing with it's own Mustang GT, not the Corvettes, M3s, GTOs, and Vipers.

Anyone who says the car will have a high lateral acceleration with a solid axle and us road racers should be happy with it isn't a road racer. Lateral Gs have nothing to do with an IRS or Solid Axle! A solid axle will make the Mustang Cobra a joke. Great at the drag strip, yes, but big deal. Real drivers will have to swith brands. I love my 2003 Cobra, and I'll buy a V8 M3 or a Z06; far superior cars that are certainly worth the additional money. The $40K Cobra won't be worth $30K.

WAKE UP FORD! :bounce:

blk04cobra1
02-22-2005, 08:18 AM
I think that the new cobra will be a steal at $45k, with 450hp...I mean, look at the new Z06 and Vipers up in the $70k range for 500hp...please, it's all a matter of taste and from the looks of it, you bought a 2003 Cobra, so why all the complaining? You are right...they did "waste" a lot of money in R&D for the GT and that's why they stated they are going the cheaper route with the solid axle...I agree, the IRS is a necessity for a "sports car", but sometimes you just have to weigh your options...I will be curious to see what they do in the next few months, maybe enough people will protest the solid rear and convince them to change it out before production?

davelegguy
02-22-2005, 10:38 AM
Lets see, the base price on a viper is 85,295$ the new z06 is going to be 60-70k and I just priced out a new m3 to my liking and it came to 60 grand griggs racing solid axle stangs beat tracked m3's frequently. So you can compete w/o irs. the new chassi is so much stiffer .anyway for 40 k you just can't beat it supercar performance for less than1/2 the price of a viper. you could take the 45,000$ and build a 1000 hp irs cobra And a spare engine

blk04cobra1
02-22-2005, 01:47 PM
Lets see, the base price on a viper is 85,295$ the new z06 is going to be 60-70k and I just priced out a new m3 to my liking and it came to 60 grand griggs racing solid axle stangs beat tracked m3's frequently. So you can compete w/o irs. the new chassi is so much stiffer .anyway for 40 k you just can't beat it supercar performance for less than1/2 the price of a viper. you could take the 45,000$ and build a 1000 hp irs cobra And a spare engine
could not have said it better myself...:thumbsup:

Mystic_Cobra
02-22-2005, 10:33 PM
I think it would be silly for them to put only a solid rear in the next Cobra. It would be like going backwards. All the development time and they should be able to come up with one. NOW, what would REALLY be cool is if they offered a solid rear AND an IRS!

ausie
02-23-2005, 06:42 AM
The less they cram into the 07 Cobra, the more value my 04 gains. If they opt not to design an IRS for the new chassy, then the 99's through 04 will be unique in the mustang community, as well as adding value since the IRS in some ways is desired. My guess is that since the chassy for the previous versions were based on a car made in the late to mid 60's (which probably used leaf springs at one time) gave the 99-04 the chassy support for the bolt on IRS. Sounds like a design challenge to me. I run into that everyday at work but on a different scale and type of product. If the key ingrediants of the new chassy are missing, more than likely the first run of the Cobra will be lacking the IRS. As for the HP and torque numbers boasted for the new generation will probably be SAE net and not actual figures. The out of the box crate engine from Ford racing (same motor used in 03/04 Cobra's) will produce 487hp and 482ft-lb on an engine dyno. The SAE net figures are closer to real world application with all the ammenities added. In some way I would be happy if they could not pull it off, but would still like to see if it will be done. If the chassy designers were doing their homework they could have easily made provisions for different rear ends in the development phase. So much for the lego concept (why call it modular if it is not).

davelegguy
02-23-2005, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they offered both suspensions on the cobra. Ford has added irs into their trucks and crossover cars as well. ( I love how my 04 eddie Bauer expedition drives on its irs) Lets not forget all of the other special bits and pieces that make a cobra such a value from the gas tank thru the fuel system the intercooler, interior appointments and exterior styling. thgis is a lot more than some old f-body with a screaming chicken decal on the hood!!!!

jjraiser
02-25-2005, 11:45 PM
I appreciate everyone's comments, and it's clear there are solid axle types, and IRS types out there. I'm obviously an IRS/sports car guy. I agree that the Mustang Cobra with a solid axle would be a nice car, but I don't get Ford's plan here. Who are they competing with in the market?

I'm saying a good performance car, especially a sports car, is not all about horsepower. The 911 and Lotus (all models) are great examples where they are quick because of their weight as much as power. As far as handling, IRS is just far superior. I get it, drag guys want and should have their solid axle. However, Ford puts more handling into their SUVs than their mainstream performance car? WHAT? Again, the 07 Cobra will be nothing more than a beefed up GT, that's it. And that's the problem.

If you're on a tighter budget you get the Cobra not the Z06, M3, or Viper. I understand that too. But again, Ford is not trying to compete where they need to compete. And that is the Z06s, Vipers, and M3s of this world. They won't? Or can't?

RF Cobra
02-26-2005, 12:02 AM
Ford can't as long as they keep spending their time making compromises instead of vehicles.

ausie
02-26-2005, 10:21 AM
Keep in mind that the new 05 is a retro vehicle. If the IRS was a value they could have installed or designed an IRS for the car. The only improvement they made was by upgrading the processor from the slow ECU IV to the Spanish Oak. They may have improved the heads a bit by adding the varialbe timing and the extra valve. Most manufacturers design around the motor's potential and will limit performance durability due to the sum of the parts. You can get wheel hop with both! Why then do the competition use IRS? They have been designing and building the IRS for a much longer time than Ford in a production class vehicle. As we all know, most manufactures will cut cost in materials to increase profitablility, mostly overlooked is how the parts are assembled since time = money. The problem is in the volume of vehicles. If the new 05 Mustang took on the IRS as a production component, just imagine what they could do with the IRS. It is a learning curve, the more you build a given component, the more time is spent on development during the production process. Call it refinement. What could be done would be to select a different vehicle (lincolin for instance) that would share simialr parts which in turn would be the building block for Flagship vehicles. That is where the modular motor started, in competition to the Northstar GM motor used in Cadilac.

However, the Ford Flagship Cobra should not be a platform to cut costs. I would soon rather pay $50k than to buy a car that can go fast for $30k which is built with cheezy components. I certainly hope that the FORD GT (40) does not take away from the Cobra all of it's performance qualities since Ford now has a super car contendor (used to be the Cobra). There is no question that Rouch and Saleen took part in the development of the Ford GT, More than likely the 05 Mustangs offered by the same companies will probably be the basis for the new Cobra. I would have to admit that what they have done to the 05 GT platform is very sharp. I guess we will have to wait to see what is released as the Next Cobra. It could be interesting.

Mystic_Cobra
02-26-2005, 12:30 PM
Slow down there, aussie. You said, "The only improvement they made was by upgrading the processor from the slow ECU IV to the Spanish Oak. " You're way off there. Nearly every part/system on the 05 is new or redesigned. The rear end is a new 3 link w/PHB. The chassis/unibody is all new, stiffer in every direction. The front suspension is new. The engine uses the 3V heads from the F150 that you mention, but the block is aluminum. Last year's GT used the iron block. Transmissions are new/improved. I could go on...

They really gave us a great car for 05 for the money. Both the GT and the V6 are a great bang for the buck.

I agree with your statement, "...the Ford Flagship Cobra should not be a platform to cut costs. I would soon rather pay $50k than to buy a car that can go fast for $30k which is built with cheezy components."

And for that reason, I will have an 07 Cobra in my garage next year. I know there will be some compromises, but after the awesome 03 Cobra (given the fact that it was built on a 1978 Fairmont platform) I know the next Cobra will be an awesome car! I think it will be IRS, 5.4 3V SC. But I think it would also be cool if there was a SRA (solid rear) version for those drag strip types. Maybe the latest rumors of GT350 and GT500 versions of the Cobra could fit that bill. Interesting thought, huh?
:bounce:

jjraiser
02-27-2005, 08:03 AM
I agree the new Mustang is a great car with its SRA or not. Ford finally did the right thing and a good thing. I agree an IRS/SRA option would be great for the whole Mustang line, but especially the Cobra. I don't think an option will happen, however. I hope the new Cobra does have an IRS, but I think with all the talk to date, it's gonna be an SRA. I default to my arguments above, and some others concur. I know the drag/high hp guys want an SRA, and the road racers will take less hp (better at least be 400) with an IRS.

However, outside of each of our personal wishes, Ford's overall strategy with a high-end sports car with an SRA is crazy. I just don't get the idea. Hell, can the 8.8" even handle 500 hp? No. I assume it'll be a 9" rear. Whatever the case, the DEW platform is an IRS platform and has been developed as such. They had to re-do the chassis for the SRA V6 and GT Mustang. That, we agree was a cost cutting measure, yes? A V6 with the IRS would be a great drving car (65% of all Mustang sales). If the Explorer and Expeditions have IRS...why not the V6 Mustang. Hell, the IRS could easily handle the 300 hp of the GT. Tuners to 400? No problem. The current IRS can handle 400+. I just think Ford is being way too cheap in a market that commands attention to detail. That detail includes and IRS. It includes an IRS because ALL the other cars the Cobra is to compete with (market sales and on the track) HAVE IRSs!

Ford, you listening?

ausie
02-27-2005, 11:17 AM
:D I was avoiding the full detail for a purpose to emphasize the IRS. The only real advancement but in a non-mechanical view point was the processor. The obvious is that the 05 is completely new from the ground up, but still employ's old school technology as well as new school improvements. Yes, I can agree the 05 is getting up to snuff with todays designs. New suspension, improved rear, etc.....Variable timming is one thing (actually most vehicles have it to some degree) which required a faster processor to manage it. I am not denying the facts, just over-looking them. As a design perspective, most of the improvements purposely held un-disclosed will come out when they unveil the next generation Cobra. My point alothough indirect, as is stated elsewhere from others, if the IRS could be installed in a run of the mill Explorer and many other vehicles Ford has manufactured, why not the 05 Mustang? I am sure that the changes they made to the rear is a good thing. If it is engineered right, there would be no need for the IRS. I am sure most here are familiar with the issues of live (solid) rear axles. If I knew all of the applicable terms I would use them now. (Axle tramp, suspension binding, lateral shift, weight transfer, etc....) From articles I have read on the 05 platform it looks like Ford did their homework. I guess it all depends on use of the vehicle. Oval track and drag race would get the best use out of a solid rear, as for road race either solid or IRS is suitable. Live or IRS both have advantages and disadvantages.

The big rave of the 05 is that finally they desinged a modern chassis for the mustang. From what I hear it has brought the mustang into a new class, being that it is no longer out-dated. Looks like mid to end of March when the Cobra makes it big debut in New York. What I have heard in the rumor mill is that it will have the Shelby name badge on it. I guess it is a big deal, but for some reason or another, I am not overly excited about it. Maybe due to owning an 04 SVT and now is no longer the talk of the crowd. I have looked at an 05 GT which is owned by a friend of a friend. We had both cars side by side with the hoods open. Of course there are huge differences in the engine bay, but the minor details is what I was interested in, such as cooling system, brakes, battery location, intake tract, etc.... Looks like the cooling expansion tank got a full make-over. I found it odd to see the battery located on the passenger side fire-wall. Interesting to note that you could actually reach down to the bottom of the engine compartment. The headers were in full view (would look better if it had long tube ceramic coated headers). The disappointment was that the motor looked nothing like that shown in the reviews (another model I suspect for show and tell). It looked un-finished. The squared cover that was supposed to be on top of the intake runners was missing which exposed the composit or plastic intake runners. There are things you can do with plastics at a reasonable cost, however, it makes it appear cheap. I can only imagine the slew of aftermarket parts that will be flooding the market for the 05 :cool: way cool!

For now my body will be planted in the ol 04 SVT and it will take more of a car to get me out of it :thumbsup:. Perhaps the next gen Mustang Cobra???

davelegguy
02-28-2005, 09:24 AM
Boy I sure am surprised by this debate. I just posted a little bit about a short article in autoweek and this thread gets a life of it's own. I sure hope the gods at svt take a look at our passionate ford geek rambling's. There was another autoweek article about the gizmo content of the new bmw 3 series. I had an x5 with the 4.4 and the sport package overall I thought it was a great ride but it had too many gizmo gremlins that the dealer couldn't fix! That is why I chose a cobra over a 911, the lack of gizmos.

jjraiser
03-01-2005, 05:58 AM
Regarding the IRS and SRA debate. Keep in mind the vast, vast majority of all Mutang Cobras will be used on the street, not the track. Last I checked, turns, elevation changes, and lots-o-bumps pervade the highways and byways of America. Ford is not recognizing the needs for their contender in a market who know where their cars are being driven, and why their cars drive so damn well.

In the end, I do think Ford has done a great job with the new platform. It is a great car; and will get better. :thumbsup: I just want my IRS on my new 2007 Mustang Cobra!!!!! :bounce:

davelegguy
03-01-2005, 10:30 AM
I'm casting my vote for The IRS on my next cobra as well. While I know that you can get a SRA to drive well it does seem like a step backward. I'm willing to pay the slight extra!!! :)