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Old 09-16-2003, 11:04 AM   #1
94venom
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wanting 300 rwhp

guys, i need some help. i recently took my 94 snake to blue ridge motorsports in enka and put it on the new dynojet there. it topped out at 232.8 rwhp, and 267.5 lb/ft of torque. the car feels like the numbers should be higher than that. so, i have a few ?'s...

1. i have 3.73 gears in it. does the gear set make a difference in rwhp and trq? if so, how much of a difference?

2. the snake is a 94, and has 166K miles on it. it is my daily driver (obviously). without major rework on the INTERNALS of the engine, can i reach 300 rwhp by adding heads, cam, long tube headers, intakes, etc.....

3. i don't want to kill my snake, would it be better to wait until i can afford to rebuild the motor and stroke it before adding any of these fun extras?

thanks in advance for any help you guys can give!
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Birthdate: 5/23/94
#1820 out of 5009
March Ram Air/Underdrive Pulleys; K&N Filter; BBK Shorty Headers; BBK Off Road X-Pipe; Dynomax Mufflers; SVO Side Exhaust; Ford Racing 3.73 Gears; Auburn 8.8" Differential; Hurst Short Throw Shifter; GT-40 Aluminum Driveshaft; King Cobra Clutch; Steeda Lowering Springs; Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms; Ford Motorsport Strut Tower Brace
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:05 PM   #2
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Having gone thru throwing a lot of goodies at my snake, and seeing the results i got, i would recommend waiting until you can afford to stroke it before doing any head/intake work. You can check out my mods on the members cars list, as well as below. i pulled 272 hp 280 tq on the dyno after my motor rebuild. so it was a pull on a fresh motor, and i didnt have the C&L air tube, BBk t-body, new TFI module, or MSD ignition box. I am thinking it will be a bit higher now that the motor is broken in, and with those additions, as my dyno was showing the motor gasping for air at high RPM. I also want to do a custom chip to squeez some more power out of her. I have the same goal as you, 300 rwhp on an N/A 5.0. However, if i had it to do over again, i would spend the extra money for the 331 crank. just my $.02.
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1994 Rio Red Coupe #3564

304 ci, GT40X Aluminum Heads, Extrude Honed and Polished intake, Motorsport F303 cam, vortech fuel rails, 77 mm Pro-M mass air, 70mm BBK T-Body, Smog pump deletion, MSD and Perfomance distributors ignition components, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-axe, King Cobra/Centerforce clutch, Custom 3" Alum Driveshaft, 3.55 Gears, Griggs rear suspension w/torque arm & pan hard bar, Koni Red Shocks/Struts
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:48 PM   #3
94venom
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thanks for the info!
here is another ? is it better to stroke it up to say a 331 or 347, or would it be better to go with something smaller.....and maybe add forced induction?
then, if forced induction, turbo(s) or s/c??



thanks again....

sometimes, $.02 is all it takes
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1994 Cobra
Birthdate: 5/23/94
#1820 out of 5009
March Ram Air/Underdrive Pulleys; K&N Filter; BBK Shorty Headers; BBK Off Road X-Pipe; Dynomax Mufflers; SVO Side Exhaust; Ford Racing 3.73 Gears; Auburn 8.8" Differential; Hurst Short Throw Shifter; GT-40 Aluminum Driveshaft; King Cobra Clutch; Steeda Lowering Springs; Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms; Ford Motorsport Strut Tower Brace
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:36 PM   #4
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Yes you can reach 300 hp with a 166k motor, but how long will it last??? To get to the 300 RWHP you are wanting, then stroking it would be easier, and more driver friendly. You could just add to the stock high mileage shortblock, but it would only be a matter of time till you redid it all again with a freshly rebuilt short block. You can do force induction on a stroker with no problems. The larger cid motor you start out with, the more hp a sc or turbo will add, more motor = more power, no replacement for displacment. Being your daily driver you don't want to get to radical with a small cubic inch motor. The 347 have a bad rap with burning oil and not a long life, with the piston ring in in the oil ring landing, but that has been corrected. A larger stroker motor will obviously not last as long as a stock rebuild on a 306, due to the different forces generated by the stroker.
Yes the gears will take away a small about of hp on the dyno, I'm not sure of what percentage.
Build a stout 331 (forged internals, AFR heads, intake & good cam) and add a turbo or supercharger and you will be close, if not over 400 hp.

Hey Arron, with all the work on your motor (aluminum heads, extrude honed intake, cam), I would think you would have more hp and tq. I dynoed 255 rwhp & 305 rwtq with my stock motor and over 114k miles when I had it dynoed. Just curious.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:23 PM   #5
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Wow, i dont know how you dyno's that much? maybe those were numbers converted to fly wheel HP. thats more than stock hp at the fly? ive never heard of a stock motor putting out that much, thats more than a 96-98 cobra? i dunno, maybe those 94 pacecars got diff motors... =) i was a little dissapointed as well, but they said it was pretty impressive power for a 5.0. the torque might be a little low because of the cam being more of a high RPM power cam? but like i said i was showing a big shortage of air above 4500 and i was having ignition problems. i expect it to be 300 rwhp next time i hit the dyno.
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1994 Rio Red Coupe #3564

304 ci, GT40X Aluminum Heads, Extrude Honed and Polished intake, Motorsport F303 cam, vortech fuel rails, 77 mm Pro-M mass air, 70mm BBK T-Body, Smog pump deletion, MSD and Perfomance distributors ignition components, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-axe, King Cobra/Centerforce clutch, Custom 3" Alum Driveshaft, 3.55 Gears, Griggs rear suspension w/torque arm & pan hard bar, Koni Red Shocks/Struts
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:09 AM   #6
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when i did my dyno pull, i had to do it in 3rd? i have since heard that a pull in 4th will net more rwhp......is that true? also, thanks for the advice about the motor stuff. i have never dealt with a stroked motor. hopefully, when i do have to rebuild, the car will not be a daily driver.
why did you specify ATF heads? i have been thinking about going with an entire TFS set up....upper and lower intakes and Twisted Wedge heads...

i have heard that the twisted wedge heads with an E303 cam will give up to a 75 hp gain on the motor. any clue if this claim is valid?

like i said, thanks again!
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1994 Cobra
Birthdate: 5/23/94
#1820 out of 5009
March Ram Air/Underdrive Pulleys; K&N Filter; BBK Shorty Headers; BBK Off Road X-Pipe; Dynomax Mufflers; SVO Side Exhaust; Ford Racing 3.73 Gears; Auburn 8.8" Differential; Hurst Short Throw Shifter; GT-40 Aluminum Driveshaft; King Cobra Clutch; Steeda Lowering Springs; Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms; Ford Motorsport Strut Tower Brace
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Old 09-19-2003, 01:11 AM   #7
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When I say stock, that is just the long block (never had the valve cover off). I do have FRPP headers, Bassani X pipe with cats, Flowmaster cat back, MAC under drive pullies, Pro M77 MAF (home made CAI), 70mm TB (since sold, it had a nitrous connector that someone wanted & I didn't, sold more than paid), Crane Hi6 ignition, FRPP extender (modified for the Cobra), 3.73 gears, timing at 14 degrees. Basicly just bolt ons and that was with over 114000 miles on the motor. Did the pull in 4th gear and had time to cool, that is RWHP and had a 14.0 air fuel ratio(little high, so I turned down the air fuel ratio on the extender).
I did dyno 230 with only silencer pulled and 14 degrees timeing with 90k miles, so maybe I do have a "special motor" or just getting broke in.. The motors are the same from the coupe to the Indy pace car... I have heard that the 94\95 Cobra motors were under rated.

I meant AFR heads, has been edited. The AFR heads seem to put out more HP & better air flow at all valve lifts than the TF, from what I have read. Check out the MMFF last 2 issues, they did a really good shoot out for the 5.0 heads and the AFR heads, 165 made more hp than the other street heads. And the AFR 185 heads was at the top in the street strip heads. When I rebuild my motor I will be going with AFR heads. TW are good heads, have sort of a bad history of valve guides going bad, but has been corrected.
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Old 09-19-2003, 11:50 AM   #8
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ok.....i remember the issues you are talking about.....went and got the latest issue this morning. so, i am sold on the afr 165's. in going with them, what is the best intake combo to use? just trying to get everything lined up to where i'll be able to start buying some parts when i get some extra $$$.
just for starters, would it be cost effective to port and polish the factory intake? also, does a cold air tube (like the one from C&L) make a difference by itself, or does it need a new throttle body to compliment it??

as always, thanks!
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1994 Cobra
Birthdate: 5/23/94
#1820 out of 5009
March Ram Air/Underdrive Pulleys; K&N Filter; BBK Shorty Headers; BBK Off Road X-Pipe; Dynomax Mufflers; SVO Side Exhaust; Ford Racing 3.73 Gears; Auburn 8.8" Differential; Hurst Short Throw Shifter; GT-40 Aluminum Driveshaft; King Cobra Clutch; Steeda Lowering Springs; Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms; Ford Motorsport Strut Tower Brace
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:26 PM   #9
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From my research and have read, the Trick Flow street heat or the Holley systommax intakes are very good and make a lot of power. The Edelbrock intakes are of the short runner variety and not as good on the street, more of a higher rpm intake. For the street\track you want a long runner intake, TF or Holley. I'm sure there others I'm forgetting. I don't think the stock Cobra will handle the air flow, might if extrude honed for the sleeper look.
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Old 09-27-2003, 01:12 AM   #10
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if i use trick flow upper and lower intakes, is it not better to stay with the same company for the heads that i use for the intakes? just curious as most of what i have heard in the past says that is better to do........
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Birthdate: 5/23/94
#1820 out of 5009
March Ram Air/Underdrive Pulleys; K&N Filter; BBK Shorty Headers; BBK Off Road X-Pipe; Dynomax Mufflers; SVO Side Exhaust; Ford Racing 3.73 Gears; Auburn 8.8" Differential; Hurst Short Throw Shifter; GT-40 Aluminum Driveshaft; King Cobra Clutch; Steeda Lowering Springs; Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms; Ford Motorsport Strut Tower Brace
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Old 09-27-2003, 10:22 PM   #11
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most everything is compatible with each other. i would recomend the AFR 165 heads as well, if you plan to put a blower on in the future, you may want to think about the 185's, but they wont make much difference on an NA motor, 185 vs 165. if you really want to do it right, have the intake port matched to the heads. trick flow seems like a good intake. i like the sleeper look of the stock intake. its actually not a bad piece when extrude honed and ported. Mine is polished on the outside too, which looks nice under the hood. will save you some money too to modify the stock intake vs. buying a new one.
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1994 Rio Red Coupe #3564

304 ci, GT40X Aluminum Heads, Extrude Honed and Polished intake, Motorsport F303 cam, vortech fuel rails, 77 mm Pro-M mass air, 70mm BBK T-Body, Smog pump deletion, MSD and Perfomance distributors ignition components, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-axe, King Cobra/Centerforce clutch, Custom 3" Alum Driveshaft, 3.55 Gears, Griggs rear suspension w/torque arm & pan hard bar, Koni Red Shocks/Struts
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Old 09-27-2003, 10:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by cobrapace94
I have heard that the 94\95 Cobra motors were under rated.
I have also heard this. I think it had something to do with insurance ratings if I remember correctly. What I would like to know is if anyone has ever dyno'd a bone stock one and what the numbers were on it.
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Old 09-28-2003, 04:33 AM   #13
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bone stock? whats that?
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1994 Rio Red Coupe #3564

304 ci, GT40X Aluminum Heads, Extrude Honed and Polished intake, Motorsport F303 cam, vortech fuel rails, 77 mm Pro-M mass air, 70mm BBK T-Body, Smog pump deletion, MSD and Perfomance distributors ignition components, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-axe, King Cobra/Centerforce clutch, Custom 3" Alum Driveshaft, 3.55 Gears, Griggs rear suspension w/torque arm & pan hard bar, Koni Red Shocks/Struts
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Old 09-28-2003, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aaron94
bone stock? whats that?
That would be a very, very rare snake indeed
but I would still be curious to see what these beasts really put out from the factory.
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DOB 10March95
Rio Red / Black Leather
Eibach Sportsman Suspension
Cross Drilled & Slotted Rotors
17x9 Cobra R's\ 255/45/ZR17 Kumho ECSTA Supra's
Cobra Grill Insert\35% Side Windows, 20% Rear Window Tint
BBK Cold Air Induction\Redline Synthetics\Taylor 8mm Wires\Platinum Plugs
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'02 SVT F150 Lightning #1383
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Old 09-28-2003, 04:05 PM   #15
94venom
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don't know of any bone stock snakes....but maybe there is a small chance that someone on this board either has one or knows of someone who does.... i am like both of you, i am curious to know just what one put on the ground from the factory.

is it true that 4th gear dyno pull nets more hp and trq than any other gear??
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1994 Cobra
Birthdate: 5/23/94
#1820 out of 5009
March Ram Air/Underdrive Pulleys; K&N Filter; BBK Shorty Headers; BBK Off Road X-Pipe; Dynomax Mufflers; SVO Side Exhaust; Ford Racing 3.73 Gears; Auburn 8.8" Differential; Hurst Short Throw Shifter; GT-40 Aluminum Driveshaft; King Cobra Clutch; Steeda Lowering Springs; Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms; Ford Motorsport Strut Tower Brace
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